WH Discussion Thread

[Stormrage]

I changed to Rhye`s too Can you list the changes in 2.5? Its so hard to wait

 

[LMR]

Can you list the changes in 2.5? Its so hard to wait

I whole heartedly agree with Mr. Stormrage

 

[Stormrage]

I just played a game on Monarch - I usually play on Regent - my Empire got slaughtered by the Boyz

Why, why, why is Estalia so powerfull all the time!?! Is it cos its agricultural? Its so fuggin annoying, it always happenes to me when I play against them, I have to conquer everything I can just so I could try to stand up to them... I mean, there`s the rest of us running around with 10 or so archer units, patroling our borders against each other, and those bastards are launching crusades (knights `n all!) against the hordes of Skaven (yeah, raging ). Stacks of doom all over the place, and Tilea, Amazons, Orcs, Druchii and me could just watch.

 

[LMR]

I played a game as the Druchii yesterday, and was soundly defeated by a Nippon-Arabyan-Chaos Dwarf-Ungol-Kislev alliance.

I had all my cities but my capital taken, then managed to survive nearly thirty turns with ogres, samurais, turghauts and all sorts coming to get me... i retook all my cities with mercenaries, but then everything came tumbling down when the slann and wood elves joined in the war...

Something that annoys me about the Elf civs is that because they already have warrior code, the only units you can build are elf spearmen or wood elf warriors. they take a couple more turns to build, which makes exploration with these races harder to do, and i missed out on several ancient ruins and two awesome city spots because my units were more expensive...

that's enough ranting for now, i think

 

[Stormrage]

But Elven units have 2MP...

 

[aaglo]

Serves them elven master races right!

If your games rely on popping those ancient ruins, then there must be something wrong in your play style

 

[LMR]

i dont rely on them, its just pretty handy to get an extra couple of techs for free, or some money... damn skaven... why did i ever create them?!

playing wood elves at the moment, and im going all right. about to wage war against the cathayans to the south. going to be fun

 

[Mr. Do]

Hole up in your cities and never leave, and have no contact whatsoever with anyone! It's the Asrai way

 

[Samez]

I agree with stormrage that estalia is always really heavy to take on.... The last 3 or 4 games I played they were always strongest nation and the will build all 4 knight producing wonders if you are not faster (of course yu must also be able to do so.....) This makes them quite strong with huge bunches of knights. As dwarfs I really got in trouble cause of the lack of fast counterunits....
so my advice would be to make it impossible to one nation to build all 4 wonders....

 

[mrtn]

Samez, your advice to make it impossible is impossible, AFAIK.

LMR!, I too think that it would be good to have a "Peasant" equivalent unit for the elves (This would fill the same spot as the Skavenslave.). But we lack gfx for that, or have I missed something? They had an american in 1.1, and that didn't fit at all...
Maybe utah's elf spearman would fit? But then again that's a spearman...

Spoiler I've tried to keep track on the changes... :

Added Beastmen units (all have +1 HP unless noted otherwise, they also ignore forest movement cost, so they get faster forest armies):
+Bray 3/2/1 (no hp bonus)
+Beastman Settler 0/0/1
+Beastman Worker 0/1/1
+Truegor 6/6/1 50
+HoC Caprigor 6/6/1 50
+HoC Ungor, upgrade to Caprigor
-Renamed "Beastman" Gor and made it 6/4/1 iron, Smithing.
-Changed Ungor to BoC, upgrade to Truegor
-Changed Tuskgor Chariot to BoC
-Changed Bestigor to BoC and 8/5/1, Steel. Starts GA.
-Changed Centigor to 8/4/3, Chivalry, BoC only.
+Dragon Ogre
+Shaggoth
+Centaur 5(2)/2/2, Ballistics, 35 shields, upgrade to Centigors.
+Bray-Shaman 3(3)/3/1
+Great Bray-Shaman 4(6)/4/1

Added Skaven units:
Clanrat 2-4-2 Warrior Code 20
Night Runner 6-3-2 Smithing 40 iron
Gutter Runner 7-4-2 Military Training 45 iron
Skaven Settler 0-0-1 30
Skaven Worker 0-1-1 10
Warlock 3-3-2 Magic 40 3-1-1 bombard, see invisible
Giant Rat 5-2-2 Pottery 30
Rat Swarm 1-1-1 Domestication 10 ATAR, no upkeep
Storm Vermin Warrior 8-4-2 Steel 50 iron
Storm Vermin Guard 3-5-2 Polearms 25 iron
Clan Eshin Assassin 6-2-2 Assassination 50 Stealth, Invisible
Plague Monk 8-2-2 -1 HP Religion 45 blitz
Rat Ogre 11-4-1 +1 HP Nature Lore 100 Beasts
Doom Wheel 9-5-3 +2 HP Invention 120 timber, iron
Poisoned Wind Globadier 9-2-2 Adv. Siegecraft 50 4-0-1
Warpfire Thrower 6-6-1 Engineering 50 4-0-1 collateral damage warpstone
Grey Seer 4-4-2 High Magic 50 8-1-1 bombard, see invisible
Bilge Rat 4-4-5 Creature Control 60 transport 5
Vermin Lord 18-7-2 +3 HP Awakening 300
Censer Bearer 10-2-2 Lords of Decay blitz, spawned
Deathburner 5-3-5 Navigation 50 timber
Doombringer 5-5-6 Naval Warfare 70 4-1-1 transport 6 timber, iron, saltpeter
Warp Raider 7-4-6 Naval Warfare 80 8-1-2 timber, warpstone
Jezzail Team 5-7-1 Gunpowder 70 5-0-1 saltpeter
Ratling Gun 9-5-1 Gunpowder 100 4-1-3 Saltpeter, iron
Warplightning Cannon 0-0-1 Metallurgy 100 16-2-2 iron, warpstone
Rat Tank 8-7-2 Steam Power 140 10-1-2 warpstone
Skavenslave 2-2-1 10


Other changes:
-Removed the Badlands resource.
+Added Oasis resource for desert.
-Changed all workers that have defense from 2 to 1, except the dwarf.
-Leadbelcher cost to 130 from 120
-Lava elemental cost to 120 from 130
-Minotaur cost to 85 from 75, and made available to BoC too.
-Chaos knight +1 attack, -1 defence to 9/5/2
-War mammoth cost to 100 from 90
-Lesser daemon cost to 80 from 60
-Bone giant cost 140 from 120, +3 defence
-War elephant cost to 90 from 80
-Stegadon cost to 120 from 110
-Vampire lord cost to 190 from 150
-Blood dragon cost to 200 from 160
-Jotun cost to 150 from 140
-Great taurus cost to 250 from 260, changed BR to 1 too
-Squiggoth cost to 170 from 160
-Chaos Warlock, Great Warlock, Goblin Shaman, Goblin Great Shaman AI to defense, and other fixes.
+Added new units32 for Knight of the Realm
+Made new pedia icons for the Death Galley
-Cleaned up the civilopedia wrt obsolete resources.
-Removed Beast resource requirement from dragon-like units (wyvern...)
-Removed the industrious flag from Rune forge and dark forge.
-Removed Wizard's Guild requirement from Alchemist's Guild.
-Deathroller cost to 90 from 100
-Despotism MP limit raised to 2.
+Added new skeleton barb 5/3/1
+Added new Ghoul barb 5/5/1
+Added Bretonnian Battle Pilgrim 6-4-1 Smithing 40 iron
+Added Tilean Spearman 2-4-1 Warrior Code 20
+Added Runesmith 3-3-1 +1 HP Magic 40 3-0-1 see invisible
+Added Runelord 4-4-1 +1 HP High Magic 50 6-0-1 see invisible, radar

After some play-testing I'm making the Beastmen units more expensive than they are now, Truegors/Caprigors now cost 50, Bestigors cost 55.

Also, what's more tasteless to add the Ghoul units for the undead civs, at Religion or Alchemy?

 

[Snorken]

I'm currently playing as the Dwarfs on Scytale's newest map and the Estalians are pretty backwards. Most civilizations except me, Reikland and the Ironclaw Orcs, are pretty backwards, though. I usually play on Regent, but that may be a bit too easy on this map. In most of my previous games, the Estalians were a real pain in the butt, though.

Edit: That depends if you mean tastless, as in early in the game (Alchemy is a little earlier, right?), or as in... ehm... just tasteless, mrtn. In which case I would say Religion.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Also, what's more tasteless to add the Ghoul units for the undead civs, at Religion or Alchemy?

I don't know about tastelessness, but Religion seems marginally less illogical.

 

[Snorken]

I agree, what does Ghouls really have to do with alchemy? Isn't that the art of creating gold, or something? I believe Strindberg was into alchemy, or maybe I mixed him up with someone else.

 

[The Last Conformist]

While creating gold was high on the agenda of many alchemists, the field can perhaps best be described as a prescientific theory of chemistry.

 

[Snorken]

Oh, ok. (Damn you, ten character limit!)

 

[kairob]

I would love for them to be at religion but then again I am a tastless guy , go on please mrtn, please?

 

[Mr. Do]

I'd also give the Ghouls ATAR, as they're really quite fast (skirmishers), although I can tell I'm going to get told NOOOOOO for that, as everyone here hates Barbarian units that can do anything to hurt them

+3 defence for the Bone Giant? I put its defence in low since while it's nigh-unstoppable on the charge, it's not so strong if it is charged itself. Plus giving it lower defence than other units makes it worth the Khemri player's while to include other things in its stacks of doom. Not that I really mind on either point, I'm looknig forward to getting back into Civ 3, once my exams are over!

 

[mrtn]

OK, they're in at Religion. Does 40 shields sound like a good cost?

NOOOOOO, I love slow puny barbs...

aaglo made me raise the bone giant like that, my skeletal hands are tied.

 

[aaglo]

mrtn, no I didn't. Honestly

Well, that high defence should also represent the terror-effect the bone giant has...

 

[Stormrage]

I agree with the terror idea

I thought ghouls would only be barbs?

@Tradgardssmurfen (I had to copy-paste your name, first three attepmts had type-os ) - Scytale`s latest map is still unbalanced (but he`ll update it when 2.5 comes out ), and I was talking about Estalia being a superpower on random maps