Ahriman
Tyrant
Whereupon we will then tone them all down for balance purposes
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WH Version 1.4 Bug Thread
- Thread starter Psychic_Llamas
- Start date
Whereupon we will then tone them all down for balance purposes
Arexack_heretic
Emperor
She can be fairly uber at first, if she is immortal this will give the AI an advantage over using normal mages.
She should not be better than fully trained archmages though.
Also: she can develop over time, starting with few spells, but gaining more over time.
remember Kislev will only ever have one caster: the Queen.
(the reason I suggest making her immortal)
She should not be better than fully trained archmages though.
Also: she can develop over time, starting with few spells, but gaining more over time.
remember Kislev will only ever have one caster: the Queen.
(the reason I suggest making her immortal)
Ahriman
Tyrant
I would advise against immortality... it doesn't really make sense for that hero (she's not a necromancer!).
Why should the hero of one faction be immortal, but not the heroes of others?
If we're going with the multi-tiered heroes (who upgrade into higher level heroes at higher tech progressions) then it would be easy enough to have a low level version (probably at Salvation and Feudaism) have the Ice 1 promotion that gave a couple of weak spells, and higher level version (at Education and Military tradition) to have an Ice 2 promotion that gave a couple of more powerful spells.
Also, Kislev is intended to be able to build Mercenary wizards, who are "disposable" casters that come with some random starting spell promotions, lack the channeling promotion, and can randomly go barbarian (driven insane by chaos). Also, some of their Priests will have some magical powers - a high priest type unit that gets some Beast magic for eg.
Why should the hero of one faction be immortal, but not the heroes of others?
If we're going with the multi-tiered heroes (who upgrade into higher level heroes at higher tech progressions) then it would be easy enough to have a low level version (probably at Salvation and Feudaism) have the Ice 1 promotion that gave a couple of weak spells, and higher level version (at Education and Military tradition) to have an Ice 2 promotion that gave a couple of more powerful spells.
Also, Kislev is intended to be able to build Mercenary wizards, who are "disposable" casters that come with some random starting spell promotions, lack the channeling promotion, and can randomly go barbarian (driven insane by chaos). Also, some of their Priests will have some magical powers - a high priest type unit that gets some Beast magic for eg.
Arexack_heretic
Emperor
oh yeah. I forgot about those.
any mention of a spell turning them into bears?
maybe just allow her to be regained if she dies? (recreated without exp)
any mention of a spell turning them into bears?
maybe just allow her to be regained if she dies? (recreated without exp)
Ahriman
Tyrant
Again, why should the Tsarina get this when every other hero doesn't? We *could* implement this for all heroes... but its a bit weird to have people you've killed keep on coming back.
A partial alternative is to have 2 heroes per faction, but only 1 hero slot. So, you can build A or B, if the one you built dies, you can then build the other. If that dies, you're out of heroes.
Arexack_heretic
Emperor
yeah maybe.
isn't she also one of the leaderhead choices though?
isn't she also one of the leaderhead choices though?
Ahriman
Tyrant
Yes... but so are the heroes for every other faction.
Psychic_Llamas
Wizard in the Making
Whereupon we will then tone them all down for balance purposes
yeh.... there is always that immortality dosnt really make much sense to me either, but she does need something i think...
Arexack_heretic
Emperor
studying fluff on ice queen....
it seems it is a family trait that was inherited fromthe first Tsarina.
maybe we could make the 'ice queen' a unit with a limit of one, not a hero...
Actually having the ice queen (hero) reappear in several reincarnations over time as proposed earlier fits nicely, an earlier version can be called Icequeen Miska, while the renaissance version is the Queen Katarin. One of the trigger prerequisites of latter versions would be that there is currently no tsarina in play...but that should be obvious.
I'd say she is fairly weak in combat, compared to many other heroes, but a powerfull mage and does icedamage in combat(from an inherited, cursed* iceblade). she also stabilises morale as many leader heroes do.
*cursed to anybody who is not an ice-witch as they would be frozen upon touching it. This is a neat bit of fluff that allows us to not make this item a dropped artefact, but just an inherent ability, just like her icemagic. Offcourse if national relics are ever introduced as victory markers, this could change.
it seems it is a family trait that was inherited fromthe first Tsarina.
maybe we could make the 'ice queen' a unit with a limit of one, not a hero...
Actually having the ice queen (hero) reappear in several reincarnations over time as proposed earlier fits nicely, an earlier version can be called Icequeen Miska, while the renaissance version is the Queen Katarin. One of the trigger prerequisites of latter versions would be that there is currently no tsarina in play...but that should be obvious.
I'd say she is fairly weak in combat, compared to many other heroes, but a powerfull mage and does icedamage in combat(from an inherited, cursed* iceblade). she also stabilises morale as many leader heroes do.
*cursed to anybody who is not an ice-witch as they would be frozen upon touching it. This is a neat bit of fluff that allows us to not make this item a dropped artefact, but just an inherent ability, just like her icemagic. Offcourse if national relics are ever introduced as victory markers, this could change.
Psychic_Llamas
Wizard in the Making
How about make the ice queen have unique names like great clerics and great sages? and make the name random each time you build her (nation unit with a cap of 1 like you say) i think that would be a great way of representing her.
Arexack_heretic
Emperor
OK. you prefer an identical cap1 wizard unit with random names over a sequence of hardcoded heroes then?
(I have no real preference here, both are equally valid to me)
Although I have no real idea what prerequisites to have for the icequeen-hero giving events to occur... maybe one event for each era?
(I have no real preference here, both are equally valid to me)
Although I have no real idea what prerequisites to have for the icequeen-hero giving events to occur... maybe one event for each era?
Ahriman
Tyrant
I think A-H's idea would be fine; have an initial tier hero with one name, and the higher tier hero with a different name. Random names would be really weird, and unnecessary.
But I would also have no problem with just having a Katarin hero at both levels. After all, all the other heroes for other factions will be able to (in theory) live for centuries.
I would imagine the final tier queen would be strength 6, with a starting promotion that gives +1 cold strength, and with 2 ice promotions that each give a couple of ice magic spells.
Heroes are just buildable with hammers and have tech prereqs, like in FFH. There's no need for events to trigger them.
But I would also have no problem with just having a Katarin hero at both levels. After all, all the other heroes for other factions will be able to (in theory) live for centuries.
I would imagine the final tier queen would be strength 6, with a starting promotion that gives +1 cold strength, and with 2 ice promotions that each give a couple of ice magic spells.
Heroes are just buildable with hammers and have tech prereqs, like in FFH. There's no need for events to trigger them.
Arexack_heretic
Emperor
oh.
I was under the impression that our design goal was that the great heroes would be non-buildable and appear by event only, complete with artifact weapons (if any).
Has this goal suffered from Ahrimanic attrition? :wink :
Maybe Ahri is confucing what 'is' and what 'could be' here?
I was under the impression that our design goal was that the great heroes would be non-buildable and appear by event only, complete with artifact weapons (if any).
Has this goal suffered from Ahrimanic attrition? :wink :
Maybe Ahri is confucing what 'is' and what 'could be' here?
Ahriman
Tyrant
This has been the design intention for a long time.
See for example (most recently):
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=301238
You build the hero, and then later you can upgrade it to a more powerful version (using the normal upgrade path mechanics).
See for example (most recently):
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=301238
You build the hero, and then later you can upgrade it to a more powerful version (using the normal upgrade path mechanics).
Psychic_Llamas
Wizard in the Making
yeh that is better. i must have misinterpreted what AH was saying
i dont recall suggesting the main heroes (lords) be spawnable from events... its easyer to make them buildable...
Arexack_heretic
Emperor
must have been in my mind only then.
I don't mind buildable heroes, really. It just seems odd next to the great-persons mechanic.
I don't mind buildable heroes, really. It just seems odd next to the great-persons mechanic.
gendoikari87
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2008
- Messages
- 7
Where can i download this mod the version i got from Moddb crashes when it tries to load? and the link for version 1.4 links to a non existant file if you know PLEASE PM ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
