What are some good benchmarks?

Esperr

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Such as what should you have by what turn? Like how much science should you be producing and what buildings should you have built by what turn? Im trying to get into civ IV, but it just seems so much more messy then civ V and I never seem to have any idea if im actually doing good or not. Im playing on Noble BTW.

Also, for something like an axeman rush or horse archer rush, what turn am I looking to rush at and how exactly do I pull something like that off? Like do I hop rush them? Forgo other cities and just use my cap to make them?
 
Such as what should you have by what turn? Like how much science should you be producing and what buildings should you have built by what turn? Im trying to get into civ IV, but it just seems so much more messy then civ V and I never seem to have any idea if im actually doing good or not. Im playing on Noble BTW.

Also, for something like an axeman rush or horse archer rush, what turn am I looking to rush at and how exactly do I pull something like that off? Like do I hop rush them? Forgo other cities and just use my cap to make them?

I think the best benchmark is to check the score. Measure the turns used to double the score, you'll see whether you're doing well.

Sometimes the score is stagnating because of heavy whip, so this has to be compensated by score hopping later.
 
Not sure on axeman as these are not great on higher levels unless an AI is really close. HA if you can start a rush by 1200bc you will be doing well. Assuming normal speed.

Expansion is harder to call. As sometimes slower expansion on higher levels speeds up science. Other times you need to grab the land quicker on a more crowded map.

Science can be situational. 100-200 beakers per turn cokme 1AD should be good. More if slider is at 100%. Pends on start and wonders I guess.

Oh on Noble the Ai are very late to archers so a chariot rush should be easy. Otherwise an HA rusg will work but you may only need 5-6 of them if the Ai is still on 1-2 cities. Just focus on building 2-3 cities starting with worker if non coastal. The rest should fit in place.
 
On noble axeman rush should be fine. Or chariot rush as Gumby mentioned. Usually rushing earlier is worth more than XP on your units, so skipping barracks is worth it if it can speed up your attack date. A chariot without promotions does a lot better vs warriors than a promoted chariot does vs archers. 5 axemen without promotions do a lot better vs 2 archers than 5 axemen with promotions do vs 3 archers+1 axe.

Non coastal start you would usually open with worker (worker improves food resources first, ALWAYS)->warriors until city is pop 3 or 4->settler. If the settler can grab horse/copper, then you have what you need for an early rush. Quickly chop and whip the units you need for the rush, then get back to improving your economy while your army takes out the target. Has been a while since I played noble, so don't know how many units are needed, but I doubt you need more than 5-6 to take out a target early. It depends on how many units they have and if their capital is on a hill or not, so you should have open borders and have this scouted out if possible. Any detour to unnecessary techs, like religious techs, will slow you down and make the rush a lot harder.

:science:/turn depends very much on your lands. On noble I'd assume you are still outteching your opponents with something like 50:science:/turn at 1AD, but it's usually possible to tech a lot faster by then. If you are below 50, then some serious review of early play is needed. If you are >100, then move up a couple of levels. ;)

Expansion also very much depends. Something like 6-8 cities by 1AD is quite standard. Sometimes more, sometimes less.

Don't look at the scoreboard, it gives a very bad picture of how well you are doing. You get points for population, wonders and techs, and it rewards the most points/:science: to the early techs. To maximize your score early, you would be letting your cities grow without whipping, building a ton of wonders and always researching the cheapest techs, all of which are bad play in most situations. The scoreboard simply teaches you to play badly.
 
I like to have 2nd city by 2300BC, then rush neighbour if near. If not, next city about 10 turns later. Then new check if rush pays off fast. If not, next city in 10 turns.

Of course, things are situational, but this my benchmarks, not the law.
 
I think latest would be 2400bc for me. Unless isolated and trying for GLH. All very situational. Always play the map.
 
I seem to be doing better now. Im just trying to get a sense of how a stack should look and what to build in cities. In my recent game as the celts(accidentally picked random) I got five citie up asap and had every city have a granary, then library and then the priority was science buildings then money buildings. Is this correct? Or should I not bother building a science building in a city with low science?

And just in general, what is a stack composition made of? I tend to only be abl to take one city and then gas out.
 
Some cities don't need science buildings, and most don't need gold buildings. The best way to benchmark your performance is to go watch some people play on youtube. It doesn't really matter what difficulty level you are playing vs what they are playing - the fundamentals all translate well.
 
What cities would need science buildings? and what cities would need gold buildings?

And what is the deal with liberalism? I understand that it give you a free tech, but going for it first seems to be gospel and I don't understand it, is there a particular tech im supposed to be slingshotting for?
 
What cities would need science buildings? and what cities would need gold buildings?

And what is the deal with liberalism? I understand that it give you a free tech, but going for it first seems to be gospel and I don't understand it, is there a particular tech im supposed to be slingshotting for?
Science buildings are needed in cities with lots of commerce. That is cities with commerce resources like gold/gems, or cities with a lot of riverside grassland or floodplains that you cottage. Your capital almost always wants a library and then you should run a couple of scientists to get a Great Scientist out for an Academy. A cottaged capital with library+academy+maybe some other beaker multipliers can take care of most of your research while in Bureaucracy.

Gold buildings are good to have in cities that produce a steady stream of gold, regardless of slider position. In practice this means shrined holy cities or corporation headquarters. Sometimes they might be worth it in other cities as well, but that's highly situational. You can do very well without building any gold multipliers at all. Courthouses are way better than gold multipliers, because they generate savings regardless of slider.

The lib beeline is so strong because the road to lib goes through a lot of techs that can be bulbed with Great Scientists, which are not high priority for the AI. On the higher levels this means that you get a lot of monopoly techs by researching the upper part of the tech tree, which you then can trade for the lower part of the tech tree. At the end you grab a strong military tech like MT or Steel, which gives you a unit that is totally overpowered compared to anything your opponents can put up for defense. So in short, thanks to the bulbs it is a very fast way to military dominance, and thanks to trades every tech you research will net you multiple times it's beaker value. On noble I'm not so sure about the trade value though. Might not be able to get much out of the slow AI.

Of course you can use lib when going for a peaceful victory also. Then the same still applies, it's the fastest way to churn through the tech tree, while skipping everything that you can trade for, and at the end you can grab an expensive tech at 1/2 price or less.
 
What cities would need science buildings? and what cities would need gold buildings?

And what is the deal with liberalism? I understand that it give you a free tech, but going for it first seems to be gospel and I don't understand it, is there a particular tech im supposed to be slingshotting for?

It all depends so hopefully I can shed some light on the subject for ya since you seem to be a tad lost.

The liberalism race is a bench mark, more oR less, to determine if you are winning the game or not. If you win liberalism chances are you are in a position to win. As far as what tech to grab it all depends on how you want to win. It all depends on how much of a tech lead you have. An example of what a lot of people lib is nationalism. The reason why is you get a free shot at the taj mahal wonder before anyone else can get it (typically if you lib it, you will be the first to it, but not always the case on harder levels.) Also you could build a nice tech lead and Lib steel for cannons. Or if you know you are going to cuarisser (pardon spelling) you could lib military tradition. If you know you are in a very commerce strong situation you can lib democarcy and troll the AI with free speech and emancipation while going to democracy for the free hammer for towns. I've also seen people and by people I mean subzero Lib communism to get a beat on the kremlin for rush buying in democracy. Trust me, you'd much rather have the free tech then not, because at noble level there is no reason you should not win it if you have a decent grasp of basic game mechanics. And on higher levels, if you miss out on it, you would have to tech whatever tech you needed for victory ALL BY ITSELF which sucks. losing lib sucks and I hate it lol.

Someone mentioned watching you tube videos. I recommend watching themeinteam for his style of play translates very well for immortal and below.

As far as what cities need science buildings.. I play on immortal and I just recently won my first deity game domination, and I have found that the only buildings that need sceince buildings are your capital. If you have a strong buro capital that is all you need, however if you want to build oxford you will need universities in six cities. Oxford isn't always needed however, depending on several things, do you have stone?, are you industrious, what is the time line of when you need to attack? The hishest score on immortal I ever got is when i had six cities and never built a science building in any city except capital. But sometimes you want to work cottages in your capital and need a great scientist so you can build a library in a food heavy city and run specialists to make that happen for you.

This game isn't civ five. It is complex, amazing, and really makes you think in order to win.

Best advice to you, watch themeinteam on you tube he will break it down so you can understand, you will not be dissapointed I promise.

Oh, and to make the what cities need science buildings and what cities need gold buildings... If your city uses raw commerce IE gold from cottages, gold mines, foreign trade routes.. those cities need science AND gold modifiers, however markets are typically frowned upon unless you NEED the happiness boost because they are very hammer dependant and not worth the investment.

Here is something that also might be very helpfull and this is a list of the buildings every city NEEDS.
Every city should have at least the following, granary, lighthouse if you have fish food, forge, barracks (if you are planning on winning militarily,)and always ALWAYS build the AP religious buildings for the free hammers IE monastary and temple for the appropiate religion, theater (six if you can for the globe theater) and aquaduct in capital. Everything else is optional depending on how you roll IMO. Well in hindsight you should have a university in your capital as well but some people don't use their capital for commerce, which doesn't make sense to me but W/E lol.

Hope this helps!
 
Some good marks for war:
Horse archer rush (minimum 8 AH) before 1000BC
Curssiers (minumum 20) before 1000AD

General:
First great scientist before 1000BC (unless you are going for war)
You should, as a bare minimum, have currency and calendar at 1AD
Minimum 7 cities, captiol should be size 10+, total population should be over 50 at 1AD
You should aim for lib at a date from 500AD to 1000AD
 
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