What are the consequences of trading maps with AI?

[Fine_Distinction]

I always wonder this, for example in a situation like that: I have a relatively big empire on my home continent and meet another AI on another continent, with relatively powerful army, whom I do not want to attack me. Does trading map has any effect?

I always worried that once AI knows where my cities are, they may become "targets". So in games where I was worried about being attacked, I just did not give my map to anyone. On the other hand, trading maps gives small diplo bonus, so I wonder if not trading it made sense.

Does anybody know if AI scouting our territory/having our map impacts chances of their DoWing? Unfortunately, there seems to be no way to test it in WB and I am not proficient in code reading ...

 

[sampsa]

Trading maps (post-circumnavigation) is free money and diplo. Stop thinking that the AI is smart. I have no idea on code though.

 

[dankok8]

AFAIK trading maps doesn't impact DOW but I could be wrong.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

Trading maps (post-circumnavigation) is free money and diplo. Stop thinking that the AI is smart. I have no idea on code though.

LOL, I definitely treat them more like humans and think more what AI *should* do On the other hand, in the thread discussing recent Always War BOTM 195 @WastinTime mentioned a similar idea, not to let AI scout your lands, so your cities will not become "targets".

I know the only way to know is to read a relevant parts of the code - so just wondering if anybody did it? I could not find it anywhere on CFC, if AI knowing where our cities are located have anything to do with them declaring war?

OTOH, especially in this recent situation I had, when meeting an overseas AI - it should be difficult for AI like that to effectively fight me, if they do not even know where to send their galleons? Unless they are "cheat", the same way they "know" when our cities are empty?

 

[Fine_Distinction]

AFAIK trading maps doesn't impact DOW but I could be wrong.

Yeah, it is still not completely clear to me how AI makes war decisions. Especially actual sending troops - do they need to know a target city or they just figuring it out later?

 

[pi-r8]

I don't think the war declaration is affected by them seeing your cities. I think it's just:

• relations
• peaceweight
• do you border them (land target)?
• ai personality
• randomness

But after going to war they do target specific cities. They send stacks of units on a mission to attack a particular city. So I guess in principle they might declare war but not actually attack you if they can't see your cities? But if they have tech to mount an overseas invasion then they'll have caravels, so they can scout your coastal cities even without open borders.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

I don't think the war declaration is affected by them seeing your cities. I think it's just:

• relations
• peaceweight
• do you border them (land target)?
• ai personality
• randomness

But after going to war they do target specific cities. They send stacks of units on a mission to attack a particular city. So I guess in principle they might declare war but not actually attack you if they can't see your cities? But if they have tech to mount an overseas invasion then they'll have caravels, so they can scout your coastal cities even without open borders.

thanks for detailed answer. Yeah, they can definitely eventually figure out where I am, I just wondered if not helping them may potentially buy me more time? I guess if I play long enough I will eventually figure it out

 

[sampsa]

On the other hand, in the thread discussing recent Always War BOTM 195 @WastinTime mentioned a similar idea, not to let AI scout your lands, so your cities will not become "targets".

I think when at war, the AI can't "target" cities they don't have visibility on. So if they can see only one of your cities, they will target that, which is useful. I don't think it has anything to do with war declaration though.

 

[6K Man]

I recently asked about map trading in the Newbie Questions thread in General. It's a huge cash benefit, but should all be done in one turn, so the AIs you traded with don't have time to trade it to other AIs.

 

[pi-r8]

thanks for detailed answer. Yeah, they can definitely eventually figure out where I am, I just wondered if not helping them may potentially buy me more time? I guess if I play long enough I will eventually figure it out

It's probably not ever going to come up organically, at least not in a way you'd really notice.

You could try an expirement though! Give yourself control of an island, and build/world builder a bunch of privateers. Then sink all ships that come your way, before they can see your cities. see if they still declare war and, if so, do they ever actually invade.

 

[ArchGhost]

The only thing I think it actually "does" is trigger intercontinental settling. AI can always see resources (including ones it shouldn't yet by tech rules) and make valuations on land etc. for determining where to settle, but it actually has to reveal the tiles from the fog of war to put together a settling package and go there. The AI technically always sees the whole map (i.e. they already know what landmass they are on and the others on the map) but it still has to follow fog of war rules like any player and reveal tiles before it can path.

I've also seen trading maps trigger Astro tech beelines, though there's no reliable way to know whether this is actually from gaining the tile reveals or simply that the AI contacts remote civs that it knows it can't reach yet.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

It's probably not ever going to come up organically, at least not in a way you'd really notice.

You could try an expirement though! Give yourself control of an island, and build/world builder a bunch of privateers. Then sink all ships that come your way, before they can see your cities. see if they still declare war and, if so, do they ever actually invade.

LOL, a really cool idea! Have to try it on one day

 

[Fine_Distinction]

The only thing I think it actually "does" is trigger intercontinental settling. AI can always see resources (including ones it shouldn't yet by tech rules) and make valuations on land etc. for determining where to settle, but it actually has to reveal the tiles from the fog of war to put together a settling package and go there. The AI technically always sees the whole map (i.e. they already know what landmass they are on and the others on the map) but it still has to follow fog of war rules like any player and reveal tiles before it can path.

I've also seen trading maps trigger Astro tech beelines, though there's no reliable way to know whether this is actually from gaining the tile reveals or simply that the AI contacts remote civs that it knows it can't reach yet.

Very interesting info, thanks!

 

[Fine_Distinction]

I recently asked about map trading in the Newbie Questions thread in General. It's a huge cash benefit, but should all be done in one turn, so the AIs you traded with don't have time to trade it to other AIs.

Yeah, I was prolly loosing a ton of by being to cautious

 

[Fine_Distinction]

I think when at war, the AI can't "target" cities they don't have visibility on. So if they can see only one of your cities, they will target that, which is useful. I don't think it has anything to do with war declaration though.

Yeah, I have to try to do some kind of test - what happens if an AI DoWs but does not see *any* of my cities?

Also, very interesting info on which city will be targeted - except that tracking "AI visibility" will be difficult to pull off with open borders, which I almost always do

 

[Zavior]

You can also keep exploring the polar ice few tiles per turn and keep trading the newly explored maps to the AI for few golds

 

[Willem V]

The only thing I think it actually "does" is trigger intercontinental settling. AI can always see resources (including ones it shouldn't yet by tech rules) and make valuations on land etc. for determining where to settle, but it actually has to reveal the tiles from the fog of war to put together a settling package and go there. The AI technically always sees the whole map (i.e. they already know what landmass they are on and the others on the map) but it still has to follow fog of war rules like any player and reveal tiles before it can path.

I've also seen trading maps trigger Astro tech beelines, though there's no reliable way to know whether this is actually from gaining the tile reveals or simply that the AI contacts remote civs that it knows it can't reach yet.

Are you a 100% sure about that Archghost? I distinctly remember Sullla mentioning on several occasions in his streams/videos that the AI does not 'see' resources it has not yet revealed by technology and does not take them into account in its settling plans. Not to say that Sullla is always right, but he seems pretty adamant about this.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

You can also keep exploring the polar ice few tiles per turn and keep trading the newly explored maps to the AI for few golds

LOL, have to try it ... Poor AIs, sometimes it feels like we are abusing them I guess I have to play more on higher difficulties.