useless
Social Justice Rogue
i think the soilders and the helicopters are way weak!
what units do you think are weak?
what units do you think are weak?
what are the units that you think are weak?
- Thread starter useless
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The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
That's kind of hard to answer, given the modular design of SMAC units.
smalltalk
monkey business
Soldiers are weak?
Well, hmm, supposedly they are just still green behind their their ears. They need a good drill instructor - or at least a short trip to a monolith.
About copters:
Damn that unit. Just after taking out 4 enemy units in a row, they crash land because of being short of fuel. Why are there no extra fuel tanks in the Unit Work Shop?
***
Sorry for making fun at your expense, Useless, but I feel Copters are the most powerfull units available.
Well, hmm, supposedly they are just still green behind their their ears. They need a good drill instructor - or at least a short trip to a monolith.
About copters:
Damn that unit. Just after taking out 4 enemy units in a row, they crash land because of being short of fuel. Why are there no extra fuel tanks in the Unit Work Shop?
***
Sorry for making fun at your expense, Useless, but I feel Copters are the most powerfull units available.
useless
Social Justice Rogue
you may find helicopters are good but thats your opinion
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
Deperiod: PlanetBusters!
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
I certainly agree the 'Copter chassis is very powerful, and would like to hear why useless disagrees.
useless
Social Justice Rogue
well because they uselly crash before they are near an enimies unit and i think its a waste of time.
I think helicopters are excellent offensive units. They'll move 4 times (minus 1 square) their base range before crashing due to lack of fuel. They'll carry any weapon and armor, they're fairly cheap, and they're available quite early in the game.
I build a lot more copters than I do regular aircraft.
I build a lot more copters than I do regular aircraft.
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
You're not supposed to fly 'Copters 'cross oceans; use carriers, or acquire a forward base to use them from (by conquest or just plop a naval base next to the enemy's shore).
smalltalk
monkey business
There are six levels of troop experience in SMAC, called morale levels.
Very Green
Green
Regular (?)
Hardened
Commando
Elite
(Oops. maybe I got a bit confused with CivIII-terminology) I guess you can find the real list in the datalinks.
Elite troops get +1 movement.
A unit might get promoted, if it wins a battle.
It will get a higher level of morale from start by building certain base facilities like:
Childrens Creche
Command Center
Bio-Optimization Center / Naval yard / Aerospace Complex
(for Land/Water/Air units respectivly)
Also there are some secret projects granting you free facilities:
Command Nexus = Command Center everywhere
Cyborg Factory = Bio Center everywhere
Maritime Control Center = Naval yards everywhere
Some social engineering settings affect the moral of your troops. (Wealth -2 /Power +2)
The Spartans get +2 morale by default.
The Gaians -1, IIRC
(Miriam gets +25% power, but only on attack.
All infantry has an attack bonus against enemy bases)
But only attack, if your units have 1 movement points left. Do not attack with troops, that haven't got one full movement point left, except when absolutely necessary.
I guess that's why you feel, foot soldiers are weaker than rovers.
If your troops visit a monolith, they might get a morale upgrade for free. But eventually, the monolith will vanish if used to often.
There is also a "trained"-option available in the units workshop, which gives +2 morale. (I forgot the tech it comes with)
Similarily, the is true for native life forms, which ignore weapons power, but only fight by morale level. The according base facilities are:
Bio-Lab
Centauri-Park
Temple of Planet
The according secret projects are:
Xenoempathy Dome
Pholus Mutagen
Build all that stuff, and you'll see your troops become much more powerful. Move your troops through fungus to raise some worms - if they survive the battle, they might get promoted.
Very Green
Green
Regular (?)
Hardened
Commando
Elite
(Oops. maybe I got a bit confused with CivIII-terminology) I guess you can find the real list in the datalinks.
Elite troops get +1 movement.
A unit might get promoted, if it wins a battle.
It will get a higher level of morale from start by building certain base facilities like:
Childrens Creche
Command Center
Bio-Optimization Center / Naval yard / Aerospace Complex
(for Land/Water/Air units respectivly)
Also there are some secret projects granting you free facilities:
Command Nexus = Command Center everywhere
Cyborg Factory = Bio Center everywhere
Maritime Control Center = Naval yards everywhere
Some social engineering settings affect the moral of your troops. (Wealth -2 /Power +2)
The Spartans get +2 morale by default.
The Gaians -1, IIRC
(Miriam gets +25% power, but only on attack.
All infantry has an attack bonus against enemy bases)
But only attack, if your units have 1 movement points left. Do not attack with troops, that haven't got one full movement point left, except when absolutely necessary.
I guess that's why you feel, foot soldiers are weaker than rovers.
If your troops visit a monolith, they might get a morale upgrade for free. But eventually, the monolith will vanish if used to often.
There is also a "trained"-option available in the units workshop, which gives +2 morale. (I forgot the tech it comes with)
Similarily, the is true for native life forms, which ignore weapons power, but only fight by morale level. The according base facilities are:
Bio-Lab
Centauri-Park
Temple of Planet
The according secret projects are:
Xenoempathy Dome
Pholus Mutagen
Build all that stuff, and you'll see your troops become much more powerful. Move your troops through fungus to raise some worms - if they survive the battle, they might get promoted.
smalltalk
monkey business
I guess I forgot to state one point:
a unit with only 2/3 movement points will only fight with 2/3 power. The game will tell you, if there is a very low chance to win a fight.
Thoughts about copters:
Maybe Useless is right.
The fine thing about AC is, that if there is a strategy, then there is almost always a counter strategy.
An untrained Copter will loose against a good defender, especially if the defender has Anti Aircraft Ability AAA. You can't train a copter at a monolith, so he must be trained at weak targets first, like formers, crawlers and lone unshielded units.
OTOH, could it be possible to put some state-of-the-art Interceptors on sentry defence, to shoot down any enemy trainee copter trying to fool with my precious formers?
Could it be possible to get Locusts at the same time as others get MMI/Copters? I guess so. Again, hard-boiled Locusts on sentry might intercept any weakling regular copter.
The idea is to get the copter down, before it can play out its overpowering strength, which is the ability for multiple attacks.
Maybe we are just spoiled by playing against a weak AI. Copters might be much more vulnerable against human players.
a unit with only 2/3 movement points will only fight with 2/3 power. The game will tell you, if there is a very low chance to win a fight.
Thoughts about copters:
Maybe Useless is right.
The fine thing about AC is, that if there is a strategy, then there is almost always a counter strategy.
An untrained Copter will loose against a good defender, especially if the defender has Anti Aircraft Ability AAA. You can't train a copter at a monolith, so he must be trained at weak targets first, like formers, crawlers and lone unshielded units.
OTOH, could it be possible to put some state-of-the-art Interceptors on sentry defence, to shoot down any enemy trainee copter trying to fool with my precious formers?
Could it be possible to get Locusts at the same time as others get MMI/Copters? I guess so. Again, hard-boiled Locusts on sentry might intercept any weakling regular copter.
The idea is to get the copter down, before it can play out its overpowering strength, which is the ability for multiple attacks.
Maybe we are just spoiled by playing against a weak AI. Copters might be much more vulnerable against human players.
The Person
Deity +2
If you get high on the tech tree you may use gravships. They work just like copters, except that they don't crash.
SideshowBob
Ah, winter finally.
[plasma]:ripper:
Anything with bad armor
Anything with bad armor
LesCanadiens
Deity
Copters can be taken out by regular ground units....and if you add armour it just makes them exponentially more expensive, plus they can't defend against air attack....so really they're in fact quite limited.
Also, I don't get why the AI builds infantry without armour.....I mean, infantry are too slow to blitz through the enemy bases, hence my usual tactic of waiting til I have fusion power + chaos guns and then just building a ton of fusion chaos rovers and slaughtering the enemy factions before they can react, so why build infantry without armour?
I like hovertanks the best, if only they were available much earlier in the game I'd be able to take full advantage of them.
Also, I don't get why the AI builds infantry without armour.....I mean, infantry are too slow to blitz through the enemy bases, hence my usual tactic of waiting til I have fusion power + chaos guns and then just building a ton of fusion chaos rovers and slaughtering the enemy factions before they can react, so why build infantry without armour?
I like hovertanks the best, if only they were available much earlier in the game I'd be able to take full advantage of them.
CamBot
I lurk, therefore I am..
I would say carriers cuz they come far too late in the game, especially compared to getting air power relatively early. I rarely have need of them, by then.
Halcyon
9000
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2004
- Messages
- 930
Don't try and use 'copters like land units. Give them the biggest weapon you have and no armour, and return them to a carrier or base at the end of the turn if you can - or at least the cover of a defensive unit. The fact that they can attack multiple times in a turn makes them devastating, especially against more lightly armoured units. This gives them a defensive edge, too - A few clean choppers stationed in a vulnerable base will make mincemeat of an invading ground force.
If carriers come too late on the tech tree for you, try modifying alpha(x).txt - perhaps set them to Doctrine: Air Power or MMI. Same for hovertanks - perhaps you could set them to Monopole Magnets or Superconductor.
If carriers come too late on the tech tree for you, try modifying alpha(x).txt - perhaps set them to Doctrine: Air Power or MMI. Same for hovertanks - perhaps you could set them to Monopole Magnets or Superconductor.
Kabuki
Viking Expatriate
If you trade 4-5:1 for units you are doing well. 'Copters are by far the strongest unit in the game. And yes they can be countered by building AAA units, but by the time there are enough on the other side, your own production has gone into the appropriate ground units... 'Copters create a window of opportunity that no other single chassis can open up.
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