useless
Social Justice Rogue
my thread still here? lol i stil lthink planet busters are powerfull
what are the units that you think are weak?
- Thread starter useless
- Start date
Meatbuster
formerly Robo Kai
I only use Planet Busters right before I'm about to win via Transcendence or Economy.
No one questions the power of the busters, but no one uses them because of the penalties associated.
No one questions the power of the busters, but no one uses them because of the penalties associated.
Psyringe
Scout
I'm playing SMAC since it came out and haven't fired a single planet buster yet. There simply isn't any need. Usually the game is already decided when they appear, and if not, winning with conventional weapons is still easy and doesn't have diplo penalties associated.
The Person
Deity +2
Just vote to repeal the UN charter, and nuke away!
methodermis
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2006
- Messages
- 9
Even if you repeal the U.N. Charter, factions will still usually all gang up on you when you use planetbusters. The U.N. Charter repeal mostly affects nerve stapling and nerve gas, stuff like that, afaik.
The worst unit in the game is artillary, hands down. In civ 4 you NEED something to take down the city's ever growing defense bonus, but in AC it's always the same and you can just send a probe team to kill their perimeter defense anyway. Arty can't even kill units! Only reduce them to half strength.
I've always obsoleted Arty and Copters every time I research something, because governers seem to love cranking them out instead of more useful units.
I didn't know that Copters could attack more than once per turn though, I will have to give them a second try...
I also agree that planetbusters are mostly useless, unless you're locked in a very long stalemate. By the time you research them and are able to build one, the game is decided already, and the buster is only useful for making wiping out the loser a little faster for the victor.
The worst unit in the game is artillary, hands down. In civ 4 you NEED something to take down the city's ever growing defense bonus, but in AC it's always the same and you can just send a probe team to kill their perimeter defense anyway. Arty can't even kill units! Only reduce them to half strength.
I've always obsoleted Arty and Copters every time I research something, because governers seem to love cranking them out instead of more useful units.
I didn't know that Copters could attack more than once per turn though, I will have to give them a second try...
I also agree that planetbusters are mostly useless, unless you're locked in a very long stalemate. By the time you research them and are able to build one, the game is decided already, and the buster is only useful for making wiping out the loser a little faster for the victor.
Copters are great when you first get them, especially if you're the first to build them. At this point the armor hasn't advanced usually past silk steel. They're great for taking down weakly defended cities or clearing out poorly armored cheap enemy units. Good for defense of beleagured cities and taking out pesky artillery.
I usually stop using them towards the later half of the game, as they are more easily defended against and lose their viability. The multiple attack makes this unit very strong if used at the right time. Also good as frontier patrol against probe teams.
I almost never use infantry to take down bases intially I prefer mobile forces and concentrate on rovers.
I don't like to build mind worms usually I think they're weak, when first built they suck. Not worth the time, I usually like to capture them only.
I'm not particularly fond of gravships either although they do have their uses on occassion.
I usually stop using them towards the later half of the game, as they are more easily defended against and lose their viability. The multiple attack makes this unit very strong if used at the right time. Also good as frontier patrol against probe teams.
I almost never use infantry to take down bases intially I prefer mobile forces and concentrate on rovers.
I don't like to build mind worms usually I think they're weak, when first built they suck. Not worth the time, I usually like to capture them only.
I'm not particularly fond of gravships either although they do have their uses on occassion.
In a close race they can help you win. Planet busters have helped me win a transend level game. If I start to loose, sometimes I build as many as I can and use them out of spite.Psyringe said:
I particularly like when the AI uses nukes against other players (not me). Makes the game much more interesting. And it means you can kick the crap out of a guy without worrying about diplomacy.
In an AI game, planet busters are a useless unit, except for schadefreude. By the time you get them, it should be fairly easy for you to capture any base you want, with a lesser investment of time and minerals. I can imagine a case in which, after a slow start, a powerful enemy has packed the monosoon jungle with bases and you can take out five or six with a single shot. But I've never needed to.
Choppers are the single most powerful unit in the game -- they're overpowered. Often a human player gets to MMI while the AI are guarding their bases with plasma garrisons -- in which case choppers can wipe out defenders faster than you can build infantry to drop into them.
Choppers:
* Can target multiple units.
* Can leave the field of battle and return to a base, completely protecting them from counterattacks (an amazing ability).
* Can travel long distances and cross water to attack your foes.
Again taking the worst case scenerio, a high-tech AI with silksteel AA troops (something that should happen rarely, if you know how to climb the tech tree); a carefully planned chopper attack is still devestating. Simply:
* Rip out the Aerospace Complex with probes.
* Kill any sensors with Needlejets.
* Equip your copters with gas pods (nerve gas isn't worth it in an AI game.
If this doesn't suffice, kill formers and lightly armored units to promote your copters, and switch out of wealth for a while.
Follow these simple precepts, and even Chaos Choppers should be able to kill a silksteel AA garrison.
Artillery is rarely needed in single player. Occassionally some jerk-off -- usually Yang -- will haress me to the point that I will build some, but usually it's a waste of time. The AI doesn't defend its bases well enough to need softening up.
Native units can be an early lifesaver if you've been focused on Builder techs, neglecting war, but later in the game, they're just too expensive.
Gravships, hovertanks, carriers; if you get these units, and the AI is still competative with you, you are a beginner. Don't be insulted! There is a sliver lining (there are two, in fact). First, not being an expert in an esoteric video game could reasonably a point of pride, and; if you are such a beginner, there are still a lot of exciting surprises in store for you playing our fav game.
Choppers are the single most powerful unit in the game -- they're overpowered. Often a human player gets to MMI while the AI are guarding their bases with plasma garrisons -- in which case choppers can wipe out defenders faster than you can build infantry to drop into them.
Choppers:
* Can target multiple units.
* Can leave the field of battle and return to a base, completely protecting them from counterattacks (an amazing ability).
* Can travel long distances and cross water to attack your foes.
Again taking the worst case scenerio, a high-tech AI with silksteel AA troops (something that should happen rarely, if you know how to climb the tech tree); a carefully planned chopper attack is still devestating. Simply:
* Rip out the Aerospace Complex with probes.
* Kill any sensors with Needlejets.
* Equip your copters with gas pods (nerve gas isn't worth it in an AI game.
If this doesn't suffice, kill formers and lightly armored units to promote your copters, and switch out of wealth for a while.
Follow these simple precepts, and even Chaos Choppers should be able to kill a silksteel AA garrison.
Artillery is rarely needed in single player. Occassionally some jerk-off -- usually Yang -- will haress me to the point that I will build some, but usually it's a waste of time. The AI doesn't defend its bases well enough to need softening up.
Native units can be an early lifesaver if you've been focused on Builder techs, neglecting war, but later in the game, they're just too expensive.
Gravships, hovertanks, carriers; if you get these units, and the AI is still competative with you, you are a beginner. Don't be insulted! There is a sliver lining (there are two, in fact). First, not being an expert in an esoteric video game could reasonably a point of pride, and; if you are such a beginner, there are still a lot of exciting surprises in store for you playing our fav game.
Proletariat
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2005
- Messages
- 63
re: Choppers
Word. Don't know about multi, but choppers are ridiculously overpowered against AI opponents. I don't know how many games I've played where I'm stuck in a stalemate with a rival faction, and within a couple of decades of getting MMI I have complete military supremacy. One wonders why they didn't just limit them to 1 attack/turn and instead allow them to move afterwards. Would still more than justify the cost.
That said though, I think you're forgetting Interceptors (SAM Needlejets) as possible counters for copters. Unfortunately, the AI almost never build them in large enough quantities for them to be a threat. Really, the real problem with the copters is that it is almost designed to exploit AI's tendency to mass infantry over almost everything else.
Hovertanks can be had fairly early with the right tech. I actually manage to get them in my last game before I even had copters. It's not at all unusual for a builder to fight a defensive war with tanks. Granted, I've yet to see a game where AIs actually managed to build a sizeable tank force of their own...
Word. Don't know about multi, but choppers are ridiculously overpowered against AI opponents. I don't know how many games I've played where I'm stuck in a stalemate with a rival faction, and within a couple of decades of getting MMI I have complete military supremacy. One wonders why they didn't just limit them to 1 attack/turn and instead allow them to move afterwards. Would still more than justify the cost.
That said though, I think you're forgetting Interceptors (SAM Needlejets) as possible counters for copters. Unfortunately, the AI almost never build them in large enough quantities for them to be a threat. Really, the real problem with the copters is that it is almost designed to exploit AI's tendency to mass infantry over almost everything else.
Hovertanks can be had fairly early with the right tech. I actually manage to get them in my last game before I even had copters. It's not at all unusual for a builder to fight a defensive war with tanks. Granted, I've yet to see a game where AIs actually managed to build a sizeable tank force of their own...
I was mostly addressing a single player game, since that's what the thread has been focused on. In multiplayer, everything is going to have a counter, including choppers, but I would be very surprised to see a human player w/ MMI without them, interceptors or no. In fact, interceptors play to one of the copter's strengths; an attacking needlejet is left on the field of battle to die at the hands of an interceptor; an attacking copter can retreat to a well-defended base.
Proletariat
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2005
- Messages
- 63
I was under the impression that interceptors on sentry automatically intercept incoming air units as soon as they enter range (ie. during the other player's turn) ... or am I confusing it with Civ3?
No, that's true. The sad truth is, the AI is so stupid that if a base I want has interceptors in it, I wait a couple turns and the AI will move them somewhere else.
You can get caught w/ your pants down if you're attacking a lowly former and an interceptor comes out to play. But since you've infiltrated (of course) that should only happen through sloppiness, and, as you say, the AI will never have their whole empire protected that way. I wish . . .
You can get caught w/ your pants down if you're attacking a lowly former and an interceptor comes out to play. But since you've infiltrated (of course) that should only happen through sloppiness, and, as you say, the AI will never have their whole empire protected that way. I wish . . .
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