What Civ/Leader combinations seem the most OP, and should there be balance tweaks as a result?

[Xefjord]

So, in all the games I have played so far, some Civs have felt strong but none have felt totally broken. Now, I am not a min-maxer or very good at Civ in general, so I may very well just be playing multiple Civ/Leader combinations badly. But on games where I am doing well on quick to online speed I normally expect to peak at little over 100 science or culture per turn.

I had a friend send me yesterday a screenshot of Himiko as the Maya. They had nearly 300 science per turn, in the antiquities... Literally than the four other players combined. Maybe there is some equally broken combinations they could have played or they could have just played better. But is there any Civ/Leader combos that may need tweaking? Is there any that seem super strong to you all?

 

[Sagax]

I’ve never played Deity before. Lafayette + Rome helped me get 2/4 Legacies on Deity in Antiquity, wipe out KoK Xerxes Persia, and my Legati got to level 6-9.

I saved the game on T1 Exploration and am now scared of what to do next.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

- Trung Trac + Rome: free first settelement. Rome naturally leads to Spain, also perfect.
- Trung Trac + Persia: free 4 promotions for the first Commander (may lead to a commendation if you want it). Persia leads to Mongolia, great warring civ in Exp.
- Lafayette + Rome: Legion can receive a maximum of 12 extra CS.
- Confucius + Khmer: Khmer has a really busted civic related to specialists, wonderful with Confucius.
- Hatshepsut + Egypt: wonder building machine if you are lucky with navigable river spawn.
- Catherine + Maya/Han: science machine, and if you're lucky with Camels => Abbasid.
Just a few obvious ones.

 

[fantsu]

I think it impossible to balance with free choice between civs and leaders.
Ever played civ IV with free-leaders? It through balance out of the window, but it was fun nevertheless.
Choices create meta. And there will be stronger options and weaker ones. And its fine. You can powerplay as a newcomer and get extra challenge later on when you are experienced.
Many games (like fighting games) rate the choices player makes with ratings (stars or such). That would be cool. If you pick strong combo, game would suggest by rating how easy the game would be. Maybe community rated even or something.
Would help the player to fine tune the difficulty ahead.

 

[Vahnstad]

Trung Trac + Maya: both synenergize very well due to having benefits from vegetated terrain and having a double start bias. Mayans with their scouts should also be at war ideally
Confucius + Hawaii: busted for culture generations and rapidly growing your distant cities on the islands. Confucius probably also doesn't hurt with Mayans although that early on you won't get to use the specialist ability yet.

 

[stealth_nsk]

- Trung Trac + Rome: free first settelement. Rome naturally leads to Spain, also perfect.
- Trung Trac + Persia: free 4 promotions for the first Commander (may lead to a commendation if you want it). Persia leads to Mongolia, great warring civ in Exp.
- Lafayette + Rome: Legion can receive a maximum of 12 extra CS.
- Confucius + Khmer: Khmer has a really busted civic related to specialists, wonderful with Confucius.
- Hatshepsut + Egypt: wonder building machine if you are lucky with navigable river spawn.
- Catherine + Maya/Han: science machine, and if you're lucky with Camels => Abbasid.
Just a few obvious ones.

Trung Trac + Maya: both synenergize very well due to having benefits from vegetated terrain and having a double start bias. Mayans with their scouts should also be at war ideally
Confucius + Hawaii: busted for culture generations and rapidly growing your distant cities on the islands. Confucius probably also doesn't hurt with Mayans although that early on you won't get to use the specialist ability yet.

All of them are good, but I don't see anything overpowered.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I think it'll take a little bit of playing before we know for sure which ones. I'm sure some will be though.

 

[Revanchist]

In my early access, I really liked Aksum + Xerxes (Not Warmongerer). Being able to get additional culture on the Hawilts helps make them competitive, and his trade route bonuses theme really well with them. I feel like he’s one of the best starts with the Aksumites if you want to go into an Abbasid run too, since he gets a desert start bias.

Now, I’ve shifted to playing caesar with everything. Getting those gold buyouts is so synergistic it’s really incredible.

I don’t know if I’m a fan of Confucius. His ability is such a generic boon, and it screams wasted potential

 

[Cannonballninja]

Tecumseh & Greece gives you a shedload of influence to spend on city states, and you can double (or triple!) dip on +strength for number of suzerains. The best I've hit is +15: so if you want to stab people with Hoplites this combo is very capable of doing so!

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

All of them are good, but I don't see anything overpowered.

I don't know friend, but the TT synergy with Rome and Persia is pretty insane. Considering how wars are built around Commanders, able to have your first Commander with a Commendation is nuts. With the Order commendation, Persian infantry attacks at +10 (civ ability + commendation + promotion) straight out of the gate, +15 for infantry and cavalry if they are at full health. With Gate of All Nations, war is just too easy.
TT with Rome is a bit weaker, but a free Settler is a free Settler. Especially when you get it before anyone else (people have to wait till Pop 5 to be able to train Settlers).

 

[stealth_nsk]

I don't know friend, but the TT synergy with Rome and Persia is pretty insane. Considering how wars are built around Commanders, able to have your first Commander with a Commendation is nuts. With the Order commendation, Persian infantry attacks at +11 (civ ability + commendation + promotion) straight out of the gate. With Gate of All Nations, war is just too easy.
TT with Rome is a bit weaker, but a free Settler is a free Settler. Especially when you get it before anyone else (people have to wait till Pop 5 to be able to train Settlers).

Well, military paths are stronger since Civ5, because in tactical combat AI can't compete with humans. So, piling up military and stomping everyone is probably still the best. But I don't see as some ultimate combo. TT+Rome is one free settler, which is ok, but not something too cool.

 

[CoconutTank]

It's not necessarily OP, but Tubman + Prussia has been really fun for me so far. I spam espionage activity on the opposing civs, which annoys them to the point that they'll eventually fall into bad relationships with me and declare war on me. So basically the entire rest of the world gets mad at me, but I also get to enjoy a lot of war support and bonus combat strength b/c of that.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

It's not necessarily OP, but Tubman + Prussia has been really fun for me so far. I spam espionage activity on the opposing civs, which annoys them to the point that they'll eventually fall into bad relationships with me and declare war on me. So basically the entire rest of the world gets mad at me, but I also get to enjoy a lot of war support and bonus combat strength b/c of that.

I think Prussia is naturally pretty strong. Everyone just hates me for no good reason comes Modern age anyway, I don't even have to do anything to be hated.

 

[Vahnstad]

Another strong combination and again with the Mayans

Mayans + Harriet Tubman

Mayans for their scouts that can fight
Ibn Battuta 5 memento +1 Movement and Sight for Scouts, Merchants, and Settlers
Foundation 7 memento +3 Sight instead of +1 for Scout's Search & Lookout abilities.
beeline the civic for the general policy scard to give scout more movement & vision (and choose culture from narrative events or goodie huts to get this earlier)
Harriet Tubman leader ability - Units ignore movement penalties from Vegetation.
Both have a start bias towards vegetation with Mayans also a tropical one.
Lords of Xibalba adds stealth to your scout and adds the bleed policy card: +3 combat strength towards wounded units
The discipline civic gives honor policy, granting combat strength to independent powers (so you research the 2 earliest available civics)
Harriet Tubman as a military focused leader will give you a chance towards military attribute points via narrative events which you can spend to get +5 combat strength towards independent states as well

Definitely want to try this one out. The combat strength to independent powers is not vital though if you don't feel you need that.

EDIT: I do not want balance tweaks, so maybe i shouldn't have posted it. I also haven't tried it out yet, so it might disappoint. This is just theorycrafting.

If you haven't levelled Battuta to 5, Battuta + Mayans do most of this very well too, you just don't have Harriet Tubmans leader ability to ignore movement in vegetated terrain, but it makes combat with these scouts just even better by adding more maneuver.

 

[Krikkit1]

Supposedly they fixed the Confucius-Khmer +Memento = infinite growth....
but if they only did it by capping, then Confucius-Khmer is still Overpowered for a mega Capital.

 

[Navelgazer]

I don't know that I've seen anything OP/needing tweaking, but Himiko Queen of Wa + Greece gets kinda hilarious in terms of gobbling up suzerainities and spiking up your total yield numbers. At least in my experience, the AI is constantly proposing endeavors to you, so being able to support them for nothing gets you a lot of free Gold/Science/Culture/Happiness/Combat Strength, leaving your influence open to befriend independents like wild as you meet them and then propose "Friend of Wei" to whomever allies with you. If you keep picking the Suzerain bonus that gives a +5% to whichever yield (or trade route length, as that's a pain in Antiquity, I've found), your numbers across the board can get pretty bonkers, not just Science (though that will probably be the highest.) For momentos, I like to take the free Diplo Attribute point (to get to the cheaper "Befriend Independent" sooner) and whichecver one gives you the extra Social Policy to start, but those might not be optimized.

 

[Bootstrapbilly]

Not tried any mementos just yet.
But just finished a game going Chola into Meiji, the Chola tradition of lower naval maintenance and UB reducing naval production pairs nicely with Meiji's Supreme War Council and the tradition where you gain science for building naval units. Beeline the Mikasa and once you build the first one and have it get destroyed to be respawned you get the choice of another 15% production bonus towards it - then you just zerg rush others with never ending streams of Mikasa and go for a military victory by nabbing lots of coastal settlements.
Have to say the aircraft mechanics in civ vii are pretty fun - squadron commanders being able to parachute infantry, drop heals and rebase quickly make modern war quite fun - but one sided as usual.