What civilizations do you miss in BTS?

[fish6]

Nubia (other), Iroquois should replace the Native Americans, and Morocco.

 

[Erik_3E]

So, now we know all the new civilizations.

But what missing civilizations should have made it to the final 34 ones?

I think that every 34 civs that exists shold stay and that you wold put al of your options in ther to

The more the merier

 

[kali80]

Hungary!!!!!

 

[Omegon3]

Sorry for that, but what the difference among Native Americans/Sioux/Iroquois?

First off, in my humble opinion there should have NEVER been a civilization simply named "Native Americans" since there was a huge difference between the culture/civilization of the Iroquois and that of, for example, the Sioux. I hate to mention anther game, but Age of Empires does a fairly decent job of highlighting the differences between the two (along with the Aztecs -- I may be missing another N/A civ since I haven't played it for a while).

I would have liked to see BTS have both civilizations with, perhaps, the Iroquois having for their special unit a "Tomahawk" (have to look at AoE!) or some type of seige engine. Meanwhile, based upon the leaderhead they use for the N/A, I'm guessing this was intended to be a civ like the Sioux and their special unit more likely to be a horse unit of some type.

 

[GT_OKEZ]

What about the Balkans ?

Everyone knows that the Balkans have been a major conflict point in world history . Even WW1 was triggered there .

Some decent options would be :

Yugoslavia : Yugoslavia's charismatic leader Tito defied the USSR in 1948 , calmed ethnic tensions in the Balkan region , and during the Cold War led the league of Neutral Nations which included large countries like India .

Croatia : Croatia is an old country with one of the oldest national parliments in Europe , the ' Sabor.' Croats defeated the mighty aggresive nation of Turkic Avars when the Byzantines couldn't . They settled the entire Adriatic from the Alps to the Danube and came to dominate some of the most notable cities under Byzantine rule such as Emperor Diocletian's capital of Spalato and Salona . Croats remained largely independent for over 400 years constantly defeating the Hungarians and Venetians until the 11th century and during that time extracted heavy tribute from the Byzantines . They even defeated Bulgarian Tsar Simeon in battle . Croatian kings were married to Hungarian princesses and Venetian hiearchy , even the daughter of the powerful Doge was married off to a Croatian king . Croats were the first Slavs to accept Christianity . Many Polish , Slovaks , and Ruthenians have old Croatian roots owing their to their ancestors the old and poweful state of White Croatia located in modern Poland with Krakow as the capital . The fact that the Croats stood the test of violent history to present day and managed to form a nation of their after being engulfed by much larger empires earns them a place in Civ .

Serbia : The Serbs once dominated most of the Eastern Balkans under the powerful Emperor ( Tsar) Stefan Dusan . The Serbs dominated most of Greece , Macedonia , Bulgaria , and Albania . Stefan Dusan made one of Europe's earliest known constitutions . Serbian royalty has one of the longest established monarchies in Europe even marrying into English nobility .
Important Great People emerged from the Serbs and Croats such as Nikola Tesla who founded Alternating Current and allow us to enjoy electricity like we do today . Serbs have one of the oldest Church traditions alive owing to their unique Orthodox tradition . The infamous battle of Kosovo was in Serbia and determined the future of a large part of Europe. This earns them a place in Civ .

Bulgaria : Tsar Simeon , nuff' said

Albania : Albanians are an OLD civilization , perhaps one of the oldest in Europe owing to the ancestors the honor of Illyrian recognition . Illyrians were a vital part of Europe and ALbanians are their successors today . Skenderbeg ( George Kastriot) and ethnic Albanian saved the rest of Europe from becomming engulfed by the Ottomans . Skenderbeg is recognized as an important Greek national hero as well . Albs should earn a spot in Civ .

 

[t_yl_nd]

I think there should be Venice, Genoa (These are very important in medieval era i think)

 

[dragodon64]

They were cities, hardly anything to make a civilization off of. I'd like to see the city list though

And who would want more western Europe civs?

 

[Swein Forkbeard]

I don't think any extra European civs are necessary. If we absolutely need more European civs, than Poland, Sweden, Bulgaria, and Khazaria are okay with me.

Israel and the Masai are a practical must for me, though. And I think the Native American civ was added for these reasons.

1. It would be REALLY HARD to research some extremely obscure city names for those civs. From screenshots, I see that the Iroquois cities in Civ3 were actually cities from upstate New York.
2. It's really hard not to go overboard with Native American civs. Firaxis wants them all in, but still wants space for other misrepresented areas of the world.
3. My US History teacher considers the different Native American tribes to be like US states. So, if we have an Iroquois civ, we should just have a Virginian civ or a Washingtonian civ.
4. The Native Americans all fictitiously (spelling?) unite together to take on more CIVILIZED civilizations like the French, Romans, and Chinese!

 

[ewu.7waker]

wow, voting has really slowed down here.

 

[killmeplease]

Assiria, Israel, Nubia(?).
no more european civs please..

 

[Jazzmail]

I can see some merit in including Nubia or Phoenicia.

I don't think they should include every single nation out there. Just the really influential ones.

 

[Bolka]

It seems that several people are confusing Civilization with Country.

Talking about countries is misleading, not all countries nowadays relate perfectly to a civilization, and countries have different cultures even if they come from the same civilization, besides several civilizations have existed and have no country related to them today. Similarly, some countries have more than one civilization in their territory/history (like the USA or France).

Some cases are rather clear though, for instance:

Brazil, Canada, Argentina, Australia = Colonies, you can hardly argue these are civilizations of their own (and I live in one of them).

Mexico = Mayas
Denmark, Sweden, Norway = Scandinavia
Finland, Hungary, Lituania = Magyars
Colombia, Peru, Bolivia, Venezuela, Equador = Incas

I don't mind seeing more civs in the game, but they have to be civilizations.

 

[ewu.7waker]

then in that case Benin. it's own unique and original civilization, Arguably the most impenetrable and unshakable city state(which did end up expanding into an empire) in African history, and it would reflect the west african imperial culture. this would also help fill the void that always let's the zulu and mali civs expand uncontrollably on the earth maps.

 

[TheLastOne36]

Brazil, Canada, Argentina, Australia = Colonies, you can hardly argue these are civilizations of their own (and I live in one of them). agreed

Mexico = Mayas Hell no, Mayans are Native American, Mexicans are descendants of spanish settleers
Denmark, Sweden, Norway = Scandinavia ok
Finland, Hungary, Lituania = Magyars WTH? It's called Finno-Urgic, Finland i get, Hungary is Magyar, and there were just influenced by Huns, Hungarians aren't Finno-Urgic in blood. And Lithuania is baltic. There is so many things wrong with this statement that's it's humiliating to see a post like this on CFC.
Colombia, Peru, Bolivia, Venezuela, Equador = Incas Inca's never went to Venezuela

I don't mind seeing more civs in the game, but they have to be civilizations.

10 chars...

 

[braindrain]

3. My US History teacher considers the different Native American tribes to be like US states. So, if we have an Iroquois civ, we should just have a Virginian civ or a Washingtonian civ.

I strongly disagree with this oversimplified statement, and if i had this teacher spreading this kind of short sighted and boarderline racist nonsence to my kids, i'd be extremely upset.

native american nations are more akin to european countries then to american states. There are no languages, cultures, histories, traditions, or really anything else that are so in common with each 'tribe' to justify such a statement. comparing black feet to tlingits is more like comparing spain to norway than vergina to washington. but, i guess, when you compare native nations to europeon nations, most people immediatly (and arrogantly) tune out to such sillyness....

anyway the sioux or iroqui were/are not tribes, they are nations

here's a kind of a breakdown of the sioux nation:

the idea of 'sioux' is the whole nation, like america is a whole nation.
This nation is divided into three sub language groups, the lakota, the nakota, and the dakota
lakota, nakota, and dakota are still not tribes, they are like subdivisions based on differences in language and geographical locations. I guess you could compare these as states...
within these language goups you find many many tribes with their own territories and traditions, these could be losely compared to as cities with their respective counties.

a person living at this time would consider himself as a member of whatever particular tribe, say a Yankton first, which is part of the Nakota people, who are part of the Sioux nation, not as a member of a generic and non existing sioux tribe...

These nations are basically confederations of many many many tribes, which never really unite as a whole force, let alone nations uniting or merging with ohter nations. But you wouldn't expect France and Russia uniting as a whole and completely singular new nation either, would you?

i don't understand why it is so hard for people to apply any reasonable effort into understanding the native american identity. I think Native Americans, especially in North America are the only racial group that gets so little effort with understanding and awareness. I guess the old Hollywood cowboy and savage scalpin injuns movies have done too good of a job at portraying 'american history' for anyone to really do any independent work to learn the real truths.

now, wether or not this constitutes who or how native americans are portrayed in Civ games will always be up to debate just like other world nations being debated on these forums. I'm just fed up with tired old stereotypes shining through all the time... especially here in a medium that should represent the true essence of a nation, not prolonging outdated and narrowminded preconceptions.

 

[Swein Forkbeard]

Admittedly I've moved up a grade since I wrote that post.

Still, I wish the Hittites were in.

 

[Turquoiside]

Admittedly I've moved up a grade since I wrote that post.

Still, I wish the Hittites were in.

Hittites, Iroqouis, and maybe Morroco desrve a spot.


Why the necromancing? Because it was bound to be made into another topic eventually.

 

[CCRunner]

Hittites, Israel, and Assyria.

 

[Antilogic]

Believe it or not, for all the months I have been associated with this thread, I have still not voted. Through modding, I have been able to add the Iroquois and I have renamed the HRE Austria, so there's a pair that I want.

If I wanted another few, I would probably pick...

• Hittites - I was suprised to not see them make it into Civ4
• Akkad or Assyria - another Mesopotamian civ, but I'm giving preference to the original conqueror and civilization builder, Sargon
• Israel - the ancient kingdom only--no Merkava tank UUs or 20th century leaders; focus on the ancient Jewish civ of the Mid. East
• Poland - give Eastern Europe a little more love...plus, I'm part Polish

Don't know if I would select any more...Phoenicia or Minoa or another classical Mediterranean civ is a maybe on my list, but for some reason they didn't make the short list in this thread. You can probably tell I'm more focused on the ancient civs and not the modern post-colonial states.

 

[King of Town]

Man these threads usually turn into a poland-fest...