What da heck are we gonna do first in da Middle Ages

What Government will see the new age dawn

  • Feudalism

    Votes: 4 40.0%

  • Republic

    Votes: 4 40.0%

  • abstain

    Votes: 2 20.0%
  • Total voters
    10
War weariness could be painful - it would cost money first via the luxury slider, and if it got really severe, we would have to starve our cities down, but it seems as if war weariness is very delayed in multiplayer.

In any case, Feudalism has the same war weariness as Republic, and Monarchy is not an option right now, so unless we want to go back to Despotism, we are stuck dealing with whatever war weariness there is.
 
Chamnix said:
War weariness could be painful - it would cost money first via the luxury slider, and if it got really severe, we would have to starve our cities down, but it seems as if war weariness is very delayed in multiplayer.

In any case, Feudalism has the same war weariness as Republic, and Monarchy is not an option right now, so unless we want to go back to Despotism, we are stuck dealing with whatever war weariness there is.
Click to expand...
How the hell does feudalism have war wearyness?!
 
Not to re-open old wounds…
(He says as he rips off a scab…)

– but recent developments with KISS are making my faith in Republic start to waver… again.

A big part of my move to Republic was the surprising realization that our research ability isn't that different between the 2 governments, at this stage of the game.

However, as I started to ponder what we'll need to counter KISS's attack, and what we'll need to re-take our Lux cities if KISS decides not to give us 10 turns notice… I started to think… man, even just another 10 units knocks 20 gold per turn right off the top of our Republic income. All of a sudden, Feudalism does look a lot better on research.
10 more units is a laughable minimum of what we need. Even if we forget about Engineering and go straight for Chivalry and Knights for the consolidation ability… and get 3 towns up to city size, we're still going to be hurting pretty bad in Republic. Which is ok… if the war is short or we win handily. Republic is GREAT if we avoid war altogether. But if the war is long, or hard fought… Republic may slowly choke our research and let KISS back in the tech game.

I'm not excited to have this decision resting largely on my shoulders.

One thing that would really help – if the Foreign Ministry could send an official letter to KISS asap, offering to codify peace between our peoples for a set amount of time (20 years?). In order for KISS to even consider it – we'd have to offer KISS some gold-per-turn. We could even put something decent on the table… like 5 gold per turn?
We wouldn't spin it as "tribute" exactly… more like, a gift to help them research faster and make us research slower.
The ability to pick Republic over Feudalism would easily pay for that.
We'd need to hear back from them in 24 hours… so that we can see their acceptance or rejection in time to pick our government.

I know I'm rambling – it's because I'm not even sure what I'm trying to say.

It's just that the more I contemplate what I would do if I were playing on KISS – the more I think that war is coming… a war for the survival of KISS. And if they are going to look at the war that way… MIA will certainly have to fight it that way… and I'm really worried that Republic is NOT going to cut it in that scenario.

I know we've gone around on this what seems like 100 times… but we've all had a few more days to think about it… Where is everyone at now?
 
Some (sort of) soothing words to ease your mind (although I am not as confident about our choice as this might lead you to believe):

We don't pay unit support based on what we build, we pay for what we have - if the war is hard fought, then our live units won't be increasing that rapidly, and hopefully our economy will increase so that our research is not that bad.

As far as 10 units being a laughable minimum... based on our military advisor, KISS had maybe 10 Gallic Swords total a few turns ago. Maybe they are up to 13-14 now? And that is if they have almost nothing else (carefully sidestepping the possibility that KISS just completed a mass upgrade). We will soon have 10 MDI. We are not pushovers even now (except for the fact that our forces are not at the front) so it should not take a massive buildup before we can consider counterattacking for our luxuries (or just pillage theirs).

If our research is being choked by Republic, then either we have a lot more units than KISS or their research is being choked as well. Either way, they should not be able to catch up in tech easily.

The proposed letter to KISS already mentions the possibility of our paying them gold for peace in a roundabout way. I think putting it any more explicitly than that makes us look desperate and would make an attack more likely.

I'm still where I was - close to the fence, but on the Republic side.
 
Ok – that's good stuff Chamnix.

Since they've already been building Gallic Swords, and we know they spent a bunch of money on Embassies, then a mass upgrade seems distinctly unlikely.

I'm with you – but maybe even more nervous… I'm like hugging the fence from the Republic side.

Anyone else want to speak up?
 
I am against giving KISS any money ... if it is to be war then so be it.

We currently have a soound plan that produces strong units in the swiftest manner possible ... nothing we can do will bolster our defences any faster apart from pop rushing Hoplite and Walls in the Lux towns.

The KISS relationship has reached the level of mistrust and will never heal to the 'good old days of Green' :(

Our agreement with TNT prohibits any gifting or trading on of our current technologies ... whatever happens we cannot alter that ... and nor should we have to pay because of KISS jealousy.

I say let them come ... and if Meleet :worship: is Just, Wise and Strong ... so will our defence be :smug:

:mischief: anyway Rujikin "Down Boy ... Sit !!" ... our resident and prodical pitbull smells blood ;) and is eager for fresh meat :lol:

So if it comes to it ... "Let's Unleash the Dog's of War !!" ... :blush: as a peacenik I am shocked in my words :eek:
 
Feeeeuuuuuddddaaaaaalllllliiiiiiisssssssmmmmmm ;)

But I have to say, if we switch to [that special government] we a commiting to a path where attacking DNUTs is pretty much inevitable.
 
Alright everyone – it's almost judgment day… Time to Choose a Government!

Here's where I perceive the team to be:

Pro-Republic: 6
Chamnix
Gbno1fan
Fe3333au
Classical Hero
Azzaman333
General_W

Pro-Feudalism: 2
Peter Grimes
Rujikin (who seems to be more pro-war than anything else! ;))

Unknown: 3
Black Hole
Meleager
Ybbor​

Anyway – as I've stated, I still find myself on the side of Republic and the team seems to largely be there as well. (aside from my little panic episode that we're putting behind us now)

This is probably your last chance to speak up. If you want to make the final last minute plea for Feudalism… now is the time.

Otherwise… prepare to embrace...
The Glorious Immortal Republic of MIA!

:salute: :beer: :salute:
 
I will issue no pleas. I have full confidence in our team that MIA will be more effective than any of the other teams no matter which government we choose.

Besides - I need to save some ammo for a bout of 'I told you so!' later on :)
 
As mentioned in Domestic Thread ... another valid reason for Republic is to cash rush walls and other essentials in the lux towns.
 
We shall give NO retrebutions to KISS... WW2 started with a couple annexing and little things, then ended up destroying the whole of europe... Same will happen to us if we give into them so I say research chivalry get knights and wage a war of destruction on them

Rushing walls mean nothing if you don't have the troops to defend them >_>...

Go with monarchy or feudalism

General_W said:
Rujikin (who seems to be more pro-war than anything else! ;))
Click to expand...
My economy always fails without war from to many workers and troops so I always gotta expand ^_~ I upgrade a city or two at a time then when I crush the enemy I move onto the borders of the next and upgrade for a few turns untill I start getting to many units and gold then I attack agian ^_^

... Also we need to pay tribute to the RNG to give us high random attack and befense bonuses
 
Just curious since we probably have reached our peak in terms of unit costs (at least for now). What would our economy look like under Feudalism now?
 
Looking to do a little Monday Morning Quarterbacking there Chamnix? ;)

I'm at work now, and don't have time to run the number by hand - but if no one beats me to it, I'll do a CivAssist Analysis when I get home.
 
I just took a quick look at the unit side of the equation:

Unit allowance under Feudalism is 2/City, 5/Town = 101 free units, as of t104.

But I'm not even going to touch the commerce aspect.
 
Here's the breakdown if we were Feudal at the end of turn 104...

Feudalism_105.jpg


Hope that helps!
:salute:
 
@Rik - You can see a picture of the screen for Republic here.
 
Looking back, I'm very happy with the choice we made on government.
(and not just because I bore a lot of the weight of that decision)

If we were Feudal, our gross income would be almost 100 gold per turn lower!
Now, our net income is actually 20gpt lower in Republic than it would be if we were Feudal, but if we were to disband just 10 units, then they would be exactly equal. :wow:

As we found new towns, and as our towns grow to cities, and as we consolidate our military with knights and stand down from total-war preparedness, our Republic is really poised to shine.

:goodjob:
 
I'm surprised you considered using feudalism. The pop rushing would be nice for hops but WW in MP is a reality and WW in feud after pop rushing is a nightmare. The only time I've used it is for a 100k game.

I'll read through this again but I'd love to hear some additional thoughts on this.
 
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