GuitarHero
Caligula II
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Plagues, more Religions, Lunar Colonization..........
THE LIST GOES ON AND ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THE LIST GOES ON AND ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What do you want to see in Civilization 5?
- Thread starter Dreath
- Start date
ClockExplosion
Chieftain
If a lot (mainly TW-type battles and real time...I don't think Civ would work the AI in real time) and of these features made it into Civ V, I would not buy it, because you guys are missing an important concept of the Civ series.
1. It's a game. That is all it would ever be.
2. It's not meant to be realistic in any means. In Civ II, beating a tank with a phalanx is pretty common, depending on your luck. In all flavors of Civ, you have people who trail behind even though the technology is
3. There's not a lot of micromanaging, letting you to concentrate on buying improvements for your cities, military stuff, and just common spread.
4. It's meant to be a replacement for a game such as Diplomacy, or Axis and Allies or even risk - that is, in it's essence, it's a board game. That is, you don't control your units directly.
In my opinion, I don't play Civ IV to control my units in battle. I'd rather have the random number generator, so I can concentrate on the big picture then the little picture. Perhaps I want to...trade realism for fun? A novel concept!
Of course, it seems my opinion is unpopular, but whatever.
1. It's a game. That is all it would ever be.
2. It's not meant to be realistic in any means. In Civ II, beating a tank with a phalanx is pretty common, depending on your luck. In all flavors of Civ, you have people who trail behind even though the technology is
3. There's not a lot of micromanaging, letting you to concentrate on buying improvements for your cities, military stuff, and just common spread.
4. It's meant to be a replacement for a game such as Diplomacy, or Axis and Allies or even risk - that is, in it's essence, it's a board game. That is, you don't control your units directly.
In my opinion, I don't play Civ IV to control my units in battle. I'd rather have the random number generator, so I can concentrate on the big picture then the little picture. Perhaps I want to...trade realism for fun? A novel concept!
Of course, it seems my opinion is unpopular, but whatever.
GuitarHero
Caligula II
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I think CivV should have PIRATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Skallagrimson
Deity
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Seems really the "terrorist" unit is just the BTS concept of a "spy" but with perhaps a few extra mission options.
Maybe a Great Spy can build a Holy War Center (religion-based, whichever city has the state religion, can build the training camps, etc.)
Maybe a Great Spy can build a Holy War Center (religion-based, whichever city has the state religion, can build the training camps, etc.)
- Vassal civilisations as a result of a national wonder (Canada for French, Russians for Ukrainians, Australians for English, Brazil for Portuguese, Byzantines for Romans, etc). The idea is to use it when you see you overgrow and your economy is crippled.
- Crusades/Jihad units. 1 such unit allowed per civ at any time. 10 strenght, 1 movement, + 100% vs melee, +50% vs mounted, +30% city attack, can enter rival territories without triggering war, can only attack an holy city, or a city with your state religion belonging the the nation controlling your holy city. If this unit is destroyed, - 2 moral for 50 turns, rebuilding it get a +100% construction bonus in it home town. If this unit conquer the holy city, + 1 morale as long as it occupy the holy city.
- Holy grail unit, this unit is created after a national wonder is built...it makes any city Holy, granting it the same bonus as the holy city or a weaker version. Using it inside your empire is interesting, but sending a crusade on it if you use it on an enemy city might also be quite appealing.
- Defensive units tree. Units which will not invade enemy territory nor leave your cultural borders, only defend your country and attack only place where you have a cultural dominance (they still can't enter enemy territory, so your cultural dominance must get them a path to the city you want to attack).
- Plague, but not like in Rhye and Fall of civilisation. It would needs to be fined tuned to cripple peoples with heavy armies and never remove the last defender...ghost towns are not logical...there should be no more then 3 in a game, and 1 should be predictable (either happen when a tech is discovered, or at a precise moment, or when all civs make contact with all civs).
- A use for extra ressources beside the corporation thingy. I think extra ressources should AUTOMATICCALLY build some extra units inside the capital (easy on design, work and all)...an extra wheat alone might produce 1 extra worker every 100 turns or whatever...extra metal might be 1 extra melee unit every 100 turns...and then an extra ressource of the same time reduce this slightly, not much...like every 92 turns or whatever...each ressource should do something different if possible, even if this isn't always units...stone for example might give you a free building, not giving you the choice, automatically, in a list pre-determined, if the capital already has all these building, maybe it can give it ahead of the tech tree finding...or then give it to a neighboring city that needs 1 of the building in the list.
- Mostly Peace option. Now there is a always peace and always war option...a Mostly Peace option would be neat, where war between civs is not impossible, but extremely unlikely, so it may happen only a few times in the game, and it is prolly going to be in the late game. The player might be limited to 2 wars declaration in the whole game, and add a limit of only 1 per era.
- Space ERA. Once a civilisation complete the space ship, the game should enter the SPACE era. Earth is a neutral zone policed by Canada (or whatever UN-oriented country that isn't going to be in the space race). Earth is the only planet colonized by more then 1 civilisation and war here is completely, and totally, impossible, Canada (or whatever country) would beat any aggressor bad and produce warships endlessly, yet never exit Earth area so it get really messy around here (make it funny to see hundred of units around here). Every civilisation deamed worthy of space competition can access Earth production, but they each see a different All civs (humans mostly) share this area freely, it has to look like a big mess. The country which win the space race is the only one with a colonisation ship at start. The cultural developpment of Earth should represent the % of what the game was upon entering this era and be relatively if not totally static, for the civs % of Earth population. Every civ bonus should be changed for this new ERA and there should be aliens races, some of which don't understand there are different humans civilisations, some of which understanding it fully...Earth could be conquered by aliens, if this happen, it is game over...maybe make this unlikely to happen, especially with Canada been crazily policing around!
Yeah, units which share the same stack in Earth area could attack each other just outside the area. Aliens races should not have a similar developpment to Humans, some of which should have an outrageous headstart...other could be backward, nonetheless, they may have very weird or different goals...make it funny.
- Crusades/Jihad units. 1 such unit allowed per civ at any time. 10 strenght, 1 movement, + 100% vs melee, +50% vs mounted, +30% city attack, can enter rival territories without triggering war, can only attack an holy city, or a city with your state religion belonging the the nation controlling your holy city. If this unit is destroyed, - 2 moral for 50 turns, rebuilding it get a +100% construction bonus in it home town. If this unit conquer the holy city, + 1 morale as long as it occupy the holy city.
- Holy grail unit, this unit is created after a national wonder is built...it makes any city Holy, granting it the same bonus as the holy city or a weaker version. Using it inside your empire is interesting, but sending a crusade on it if you use it on an enemy city might also be quite appealing.
- Defensive units tree. Units which will not invade enemy territory nor leave your cultural borders, only defend your country and attack only place where you have a cultural dominance (they still can't enter enemy territory, so your cultural dominance must get them a path to the city you want to attack).
- Plague, but not like in Rhye and Fall of civilisation. It would needs to be fined tuned to cripple peoples with heavy armies and never remove the last defender...ghost towns are not logical...there should be no more then 3 in a game, and 1 should be predictable (either happen when a tech is discovered, or at a precise moment, or when all civs make contact with all civs).
- A use for extra ressources beside the corporation thingy. I think extra ressources should AUTOMATICCALLY build some extra units inside the capital (easy on design, work and all)...an extra wheat alone might produce 1 extra worker every 100 turns or whatever...extra metal might be 1 extra melee unit every 100 turns...and then an extra ressource of the same time reduce this slightly, not much...like every 92 turns or whatever...each ressource should do something different if possible, even if this isn't always units...stone for example might give you a free building, not giving you the choice, automatically, in a list pre-determined, if the capital already has all these building, maybe it can give it ahead of the tech tree finding...or then give it to a neighboring city that needs 1 of the building in the list.
- Mostly Peace option. Now there is a always peace and always war option...a Mostly Peace option would be neat, where war between civs is not impossible, but extremely unlikely, so it may happen only a few times in the game, and it is prolly going to be in the late game. The player might be limited to 2 wars declaration in the whole game, and add a limit of only 1 per era.
- Space ERA. Once a civilisation complete the space ship, the game should enter the SPACE era. Earth is a neutral zone policed by Canada (or whatever UN-oriented country that isn't going to be in the space race). Earth is the only planet colonized by more then 1 civilisation and war here is completely, and totally, impossible, Canada (or whatever country) would beat any aggressor bad and produce warships endlessly, yet never exit Earth area so it get really messy around here (make it funny to see hundred of units around here). Every civilisation deamed worthy of space competition can access Earth production, but they each see a different All civs (humans mostly) share this area freely, it has to look like a big mess. The country which win the space race is the only one with a colonisation ship at start. The cultural developpment of Earth should represent the % of what the game was upon entering this era and be relatively if not totally static, for the civs % of Earth population. Every civ bonus should be changed for this new ERA and there should be aliens races, some of which don't understand there are different humans civilisations, some of which understanding it fully...Earth could be conquered by aliens, if this happen, it is game over...maybe make this unlikely to happen, especially with Canada been crazily policing around!
Yeah, units which share the same stack in Earth area could attack each other just outside the area. Aliens races should not have a similar developpment to Humans, some of which should have an outrageous headstart...other could be backward, nonetheless, they may have very weird or different goals...make it funny.Skallagrimson
Deity
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Sums up the frustration I feel when trying to play this and Total War.
I'd like to design a game that really DID go for a more realistic experience, a sort of "role play the full gamut of being a leader in history", to include, not just military strategy, but court intrigue, the privileges of rulership, the domestic policy-making, the risks of assassination, everything.
BE a Viking warlord.
BE a Roman Emporer.
BE a Pharaoh.
That game isn't civ, and in fact, that game doesn't exist. But in the mean time, I play civ just to get a bit of a partial fix, a partial fulfilment of the desire.
I lack seed money.
Hey: does anyone know which Venture Capital firm Sid Meier originally went to for his creation of Civ 1, the original?
Skallagrimson
Deity
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- 2,043
I even have the name for my game idea: "It's Good to be King."
I would like to see some changes to the game mechanics in 6 areas, which are:
1) more spending sliders for gold other than Wealth, Science, Luxury, Espionage
2) city production divided into 2 seperate groups; Domestic production and Miitary production
3) city loyalty as something that needs to be maintained to avoid problems such as civil wars
4) expanded role for culture
5) some changes to resource system
6) immigration and emmigration
so an outline of ideas:
1) In addition to (science wealth luxury espionage) there should be sliders for (food, military projects, domestic projects).
Spending on these will give extra bread/ hammers/ swords (see below) for your cities in the same way you get extra beakers etc
additionally, if you spend 40% or more on one slider you get a specialisation bonus which is different depending on the slider:
a) Science specialism gives +2 scientists per city
b) Wealth specialism gives +2 merchants per city
c) Luxury specialisation gives +50% culture per city and +50% great person birthrate
d) Espionage specialisation gives 50% cheaper espionage missions and higher success rates
e) Food specialisation gives +1 food per farm
f) Domestic Projects specialisation builds world wonders and national wonders 50% faster
g) Military Projects specialisation gives +4 xp per new military unit and +100% great general birthrate
so these big bonuses encourage civs to specialise in 2 areas rather than spending everything on science - it should allow lots of variation in tactics
2) Cities should build 2 things at once (1 building and 1 unit) - the hammers should build improvements and wonders and come from mines/forests etc and a new unit of production (swords?) should produce units.
Cities produce swords from pop points (2 swords per pop?) and military buildings and health buildings multiply this rate of production
units such as modern ships, tanks, planes etc should be very expensive and require both hammers and swords so cities will need to commit all of their resources to building these units
city pop should cap the number of units - maybe if a civ builds more than 2 units per city population then the extra units cost 5gpt as too many citizens are being drafted into the army and other areas of the economy get neglected
3) I like the sound of colonies in BTS (tho I havnt got the xpack yet) but unhappy unhealthy cities should be able to revolt against the players wishes or do other forms of civil disobedience (such as leak espionage points to other civs or emigrate) - Jdog made a mod to represent disloyal citizens and it was awesome but very challenging - I think his ideas should be incorporated in civ 5
4) Culture should affect other cities through trade routes and civs with strong cultures should get several benefits, such as:
a) they should be more loyal to their civ and less likely to go into civil war (city loyalty)
b) they should be able to attract more immigrants from other nations (see below), which will lead to higher pop growth and great people birthrate
c) influential and legendary civs should get commerce bonuses to represent tourism and the prestige attached to the cultural city's goods - maybe double trade route income for influential and quadruple for legendary
d) high culture civs should get a "we admire your culture" bonus in diplomacy and low culture civs should get a "we despise your culture" penalty
e) influential and legendary civs should gain access to special buildings that give unique bonuses
5) Access to each food resource (or multiple of) should give +5% food to each city connected to the trade network, strategic resources should give + 5% hammers, luxuries should give +5% music notes - so the more cows (or whatever) you have, the better.
All units should be buildable but strategic resources should halve build costs of some units.
6) high culture, happy, healthy cities with lots of improvements should attract migrants from other cities through trade networks. I think in addition to the unhappy/happy and healthy/unheathy ratios there should be a immigration/emmigration ratio.
Cities with high immigration over emmigration steal growth and great people points from other cities that they are trading with depending on the different ratios. Migration starts out negligable in the beginning of the game but the effect becomes greater after the discovery of transport techs such as astronomy, railroad, flight and communication techs such as printing press, radio, mass media.
Civs that neglect their cities population risk losing their citizens to a rival
OK, finished - I hope thats all clear
I think if these changes were introduced it would expand the range of tactics available to players greatly and create more interesting empire management challenges
1) more spending sliders for gold other than Wealth, Science, Luxury, Espionage
2) city production divided into 2 seperate groups; Domestic production and Miitary production
3) city loyalty as something that needs to be maintained to avoid problems such as civil wars
4) expanded role for culture
5) some changes to resource system
6) immigration and emmigration
so an outline of ideas:
1) In addition to (science wealth luxury espionage) there should be sliders for (food, military projects, domestic projects).
Spending on these will give extra bread/ hammers/ swords (see below) for your cities in the same way you get extra beakers etc
additionally, if you spend 40% or more on one slider you get a specialisation bonus which is different depending on the slider:
a) Science specialism gives +2 scientists per city
b) Wealth specialism gives +2 merchants per city
c) Luxury specialisation gives +50% culture per city and +50% great person birthrate
d) Espionage specialisation gives 50% cheaper espionage missions and higher success rates
e) Food specialisation gives +1 food per farm
f) Domestic Projects specialisation builds world wonders and national wonders 50% faster
g) Military Projects specialisation gives +4 xp per new military unit and +100% great general birthrate
so these big bonuses encourage civs to specialise in 2 areas rather than spending everything on science - it should allow lots of variation in tactics
2) Cities should build 2 things at once (1 building and 1 unit) - the hammers should build improvements and wonders and come from mines/forests etc and a new unit of production (swords?) should produce units.
Cities produce swords from pop points (2 swords per pop?) and military buildings and health buildings multiply this rate of production
units such as modern ships, tanks, planes etc should be very expensive and require both hammers and swords so cities will need to commit all of their resources to building these units
city pop should cap the number of units - maybe if a civ builds more than 2 units per city population then the extra units cost 5gpt as too many citizens are being drafted into the army and other areas of the economy get neglected
3) I like the sound of colonies in BTS (tho I havnt got the xpack yet) but unhappy unhealthy cities should be able to revolt against the players wishes or do other forms of civil disobedience (such as leak espionage points to other civs or emigrate) - Jdog made a mod to represent disloyal citizens and it was awesome but very challenging - I think his ideas should be incorporated in civ 5
4) Culture should affect other cities through trade routes and civs with strong cultures should get several benefits, such as:
a) they should be more loyal to their civ and less likely to go into civil war (city loyalty)
b) they should be able to attract more immigrants from other nations (see below), which will lead to higher pop growth and great people birthrate
c) influential and legendary civs should get commerce bonuses to represent tourism and the prestige attached to the cultural city's goods - maybe double trade route income for influential and quadruple for legendary
d) high culture civs should get a "we admire your culture" bonus in diplomacy and low culture civs should get a "we despise your culture" penalty
e) influential and legendary civs should gain access to special buildings that give unique bonuses
5) Access to each food resource (or multiple of) should give +5% food to each city connected to the trade network, strategic resources should give + 5% hammers, luxuries should give +5% music notes - so the more cows (or whatever) you have, the better.
All units should be buildable but strategic resources should halve build costs of some units.
6) high culture, happy, healthy cities with lots of improvements should attract migrants from other cities through trade networks. I think in addition to the unhappy/happy and healthy/unheathy ratios there should be a immigration/emmigration ratio.
Cities with high immigration over emmigration steal growth and great people points from other cities that they are trading with depending on the different ratios. Migration starts out negligable in the beginning of the game but the effect becomes greater after the discovery of transport techs such as astronomy, railroad, flight and communication techs such as printing press, radio, mass media.
Civs that neglect their cities population risk losing their citizens to a rival
OK, finished - I hope thats all clear
I think if these changes were introduced it would expand the range of tactics available to players greatly and create more interesting empire management challenges
I would like see a terrorist unit (I mean, not personally see one...), that could only be
made if Islam is the state religion. This unit would have no defense, but would be
invisible, except to spys. If other units run into it they automatically take it out. This
unit would have the ability to go into anyone's city and either destroy a building or wipe
out part of the population. I think it would create an interesting mod for someone
to try, given that that's the greatest threat posed to western civilization at the moment.
Any thoughts? (Not to trying to be an offense to anyone's religion here. Maybe you
would have to build the 'al queda' wonder first, or something)
made if Islam is the state religion. This unit would have no defense, but would be
invisible, except to spys. If other units run into it they automatically take it out. This
unit would have the ability to go into anyone's city and either destroy a building or wipe
out part of the population. I think it would create an interesting mod for someone
to try, given that that's the greatest threat posed to western civilization at the moment.
Any thoughts? (Not to trying to be an offense to anyone's religion here. Maybe you
would have to build the 'al queda' wonder first, or something)
I would like to see civ5 leaving the tile-based system for a "real" 3d terrain.
Units would have a "radius" in which they can move each turn, it would get smaller if the terrain slopes upwards, and larger on downhills.
A smaller Zone-of-Control radius would be used to engage enemy units who pass within it.
Cities would have a "real" city radius, and the amount of land a city takes could actually grow with the population of the city, leaving less land for agriculture, and therefor another inhibitor for overpopulated cities. (maybe add sky-scraper technology to reduce the amount of city sprawl?)
I haven't thought this idea through yet, for instance, how should working the land work?
additional thoughts are welcome!
Units would have a "radius" in which they can move each turn, it would get smaller if the terrain slopes upwards, and larger on downhills.
A smaller Zone-of-Control radius would be used to engage enemy units who pass within it.
Cities would have a "real" city radius, and the amount of land a city takes could actually grow with the population of the city, leaving less land for agriculture, and therefor another inhibitor for overpopulated cities. (maybe add sky-scraper technology to reduce the amount of city sprawl?)
I haven't thought this idea through yet, for instance, how should working the land work?
additional thoughts are welcome!
mythmonster2
BEC NOIR! RUN!
Once again, change the terrorist to Jihadist and you might be on to something.
GuitarHero
Caligula II
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I was thinking more along the lines of a mini Civ with only a Privateer unit to start off with, and you could trade with them or Vassalize them.
I put spear in for no reason.
Arnesson
Warlord
I have no idea how it could be done, but it would be nice to be able to:
1. Delay the AI attacks until after the Build messages are completed.
2. Prioritise the positioning sequence that is used in a turn.
It is both frustrating and confusing to know that Gunships are raping and pillaging while the system is asking you what you want to build in one of your cities or what improvement your worker should take on next. Similarly, to be in the middle of a battle and suddenly have the AI jump you somewhere else on the map.
1. Delay the AI attacks until after the Build messages are completed.
2. Prioritise the positioning sequence that is used in a turn.
It is both frustrating and confusing to know that Gunships are raping and pillaging while the system is asking you what you want to build in one of your cities or what improvement your worker should take on next. Similarly, to be in the middle of a battle and suddenly have the AI jump you somewhere else on the map.
Skallagrimson
Deity
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Better yet, just a spy like there already IS in BTS, and call it whatever you wanna call it.
Skallagrimson
Deity
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I put spear in for no reason.
Might as well--Sid Meier always does in his games.
Skallagrimson
Deity
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I'm not sure what you mean by the second one, but the first one I definitely agree with. It's more pronounced in scenarios that use a lot of event messages, like in the American Revolution one, "blah blah blah, Thomas Paine wrote Common Sense, blah blah blah, they get a worthless militia unit, blah blah blah" and meanwhile they're storming Boston with a 15 stack of Continental Regulars and Cavalry, and it would be NICE to be able to watch and see how your British Regulars are holding out there. For once. One work-around I sometimes do is position the game to where the action is most likely to be, just so I can see it as it happens when the scenario throws distracting event windows up at me or if I learn a new tech, etc.
dh_epic
Cold War Veteran
I don't think Sid worked in an era where it was about VC. It seemed to be all about bootstrapping it back then. Even ID software was able to do a lot with just a hand full of eager underpaid people, and became a hugely successful firm in the early 90s. Financing has only become an issue since the mid 90s, where a budget of a few tens of thousands of dollars couldn't cut it anymore. Keep in mind that Sid had already been in the game industry a decade by the time Civilization came out. I imagine Microprose was already doing quite well.
Other than my sort of "conventional wisdom about the game industry", everything I know about the development of Civ 1 pretty much comes from this article:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/1523/the_history_of_civilization.php
Spoiler :
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