What is going on?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Pauliboy, Apr 7, 2006.

  1. Pauliboy

    Pauliboy Chieftain

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    I am New to Civ 4 and have been playing about a month. I have progressed to Noble and play random leader on Pangea. The problem is i keep getting wiped out by all and sundry. My usual strategy is to get a religion asap (i often get 2), concentrate my production on warrior(or other unit), worker, settler and expand to 4 or 5 cities not too far from each other and build culture and units. It seems no matter which leader i am or who i have nearby and what reigion they are to me i still get invaded by one or two of them and i am always behind in the tech race, as they seem to have either superior tech or superior numbers or both.

    In my last game i was the chinese fella and managed to annex a penisula and fill it with 6 cities bordering France and the Aztecs. Louis inveaded early and regularly and although i captured one of his cities and burnt it in the hope it would reduce his production of units, when i had repelled him after our third war i was easy pickings for alexander from the other side of the continent. I started my first frigate as he parked his shiny destroyer off of one of my ports.

    I must be doing something fundamentally wrong but i do not know what. Help!
     
  2. Legio X

    Legio X Chieftain

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    I'm almost always doing the same thing as well. I can't seem to find what I'm doing wrong either because in my end everything seems to be going fine. My techs are often going nice and I am on the top in the list at the bottom-right.

    But then, somewhere around 0-1000 AD it seems that the other civs around me are cheating, or something. Because they seem to have all kinds of cool technologies when I find myself struggling to get into the Medieval Era.

    Often my economy is doing quite well, and I have a strong culture. But yet they overrun me.
     
  3. cabert

    cabert Big mouth

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    TECHS:
    you both should consider trading techs!
    maybe you've seen that mansa musa is often tech leader, and that's because he's the one that will always trade

    WAR
    All AIs go for the easy picking : you will be attacked if you don't have enough units.
    Some also go for heathens, regardless (almost ) of relative power.

    Maintenance
    the more cities, the more maintenance
    2 options can save your science: more income (cottages!) or less maintenance (courthouses)
    of course, best option is both more income and less maintenance.

    Religion
    You should spread your religion(s) to your neighbours ASAP. It requires open borders (which also give you valuable foreign trade routes) and missionaries. If you have the same state religion than isabella, she won't attack you (unless you attack her of course).

    Maybe i'm wrong, but i feel you need to read more on those forums ;)
     
  4. Legio X

    Legio X Chieftain

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    I tend to trade techs when I can. But often they technically overrun me in the late 1200AD so there's nothing they want to trade. They already have it!
     
  5. cabert

    cabert Big mouth

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    i edited my post, it was not quite complete

    to trade techs you require alphabet
    It's often the best way to go, being the first one to get it let's you be the single tech broker for a while.

    for AIs to trade techs, you need :
    - something to trade, obviously
    - knowing the other civs
    - good relations

    do you know your opponents? it gives you a bonus on research, when you know civs that know a tech, so it's always good to meet them fast. This bonus is very useful in the beginning

    maybe you lost too much time on the religious techs?

    maybe you didn't build enough cottages? maybe you didn't work them to let them grow to hamlets, villages and then towns?

    maybe you've got to much cities without courthouses, and your tech slider is down to 0, 10 or 20 %
     
  6. Legio X

    Legio X Chieftain

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    Yes, you are correct. I spend to much time developing religious techs. Usually I can have been the one behind almost all of the religions, but this of course gets me to much behind in other areas.

    Next time I'll consider not spending too much time on religious techs.
     
  7. morchuflex

    morchuflex Emperor

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    Best advice: on Pangea, do NOT try to found your own religion. It will only delay essential techs (fishing, the wheel, bronze, agric., anim. husb. etc) and piss off your rivals. Instead, adopt their religion when it comes to you. You won't get shrine income (unless you capture it), but you'll gain friends and minimize unwanted wars. Believe me, that's the difference between life and death.
    Founding one's own religions is sweet, but on higher levels, you must learn to resist temptation.
     
  8. Strobe

    Strobe Warlord

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    If I read you correct you are doing okay on techs up to the early mid game then fall behind but yet are in the lead with score.

    In this case I would assume your expansion is probably okay but your management of finances is lacking and possibly technology trading.

    If you post an example game from aournd 1200AD I would be happy to give what comments I can but you may want to look at:-

    1. Technology trading. Always check for techs to trade, and trade something early as it is worth more when few AI know it. You should not normally trade Alphabet though as this allows the AI to trade amongst themselves.
    2. Are you meeting the other civs, possibly on another continent. The more AI you know the more trading you can do and the cheaper it is. Also if you upset everyone you may struggle to trade effectively.
    3. If you are level or behind in techs then research something the AI does not prioritise so you can trade for other techs they have researched.
    4. Make sure all the land you have that is being worked improved, don't have too few workers !.
    5. For a simple strategy place cottages on all tiles unless you need more food to grow population, in which case use farms.
     
  9. Pauliboy

    Pauliboy Chieftain

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    Thanks for all the useful advice and its gratifiing to see i am not the only one with these problems.

    I must admit that i dont usually trade techs unless there are lots of cash involved, i will try it and i'll have a go at not attempting to found the religion and just convert to the most menacing neighbour. Isabella is usually the one who kicks off at me, so i'll keep on her good side.

    Wish me luck!
     
  10. Vynd

    Vynd Prince

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    Unless you're going for a cultural victory right from the start I don't think it's worth the effort to try and found more than one religion. Depending on your plans and your civ it may not even be worth it to found one religion. But two is definitely overkill. You'll have a hard time spreading more than one religion, and what's the point of a religion that doesn't spread?

    You should definitely engage in lots of tech trading. There are some rules of thumb I like to follow: If I have a tech that two or more civs will give me different technologies for, I trade it. If I have a tech that I know some other civs already have (or suspect they will get soon), I trade it to everyone who doesn't have it for whatever they'll give me. If neither of the above apply, I usually don't trade.

    One other point: When researching techs it is good to bee-line, or specialize. Push as far into the "future" of the tech tree as is practical. Later techs take longer to research, but if you head straight for one, say Code of Laws, and get it before any of the AIs do then you can trade it to each and every one of the AIs and get all of the cheaper techs that you skipped past that way.
     
  11. Dizzy75

    Dizzy75 Warlord

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    I've never had to trade techs on Noble but definitely has helped in my Prince game...tips I found useful:

    1. Identify one tech you have that no other AIs have, ideally a non-military (or obsolete military).
    2. Trade that tech to ALL AIs (or at least your strong friends) in the same turn. Get techs in return that you have skipped, ideally a different one from each AI (need to look at F4 screen to make sure you trade to AIs in the right order)
    3. Get gold in return for techs if an AI doesn't have any techs to trade you. Usually I look at the research value (beakers) for the tech and ask for that much gold in return (usually means ALL of their gold).

    You can also ask for both tech & gold if your traded tech is superior enough.

    An AI won't do a trade that's lopsided in your favor, but giving them a trade that's lopsided in their favor is good for diplo relations. Also, by keeping their gold low you keep them from upgrading/rushing things and enable yourself to upgrade, which should help keep up in military.

    Trading the same tech to all AIs ensures that they won't be helping each other.

    One caveat though is to avoid trading to weak AIs that your strong friends hate. You'll piss off your friends, and they are not going to trade your techs to their enemies anyway.
     
  12. onedreamer

    onedreamer Dragon

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    Ok it's very simple: do NOT play Pangea because it simply sucks. Play Balanced instead, it's geographically the same thing, but in terms of game balance it's a decent map, on the other hand Pangea is a horrible mistake.
     
  13. Orion071

    Orion071 Home School Tutor

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    If you want to found your own religion, then go ahead and do it. But if you do, you really have to spread it to your neighbors. One missionary is usually enough, then he'll convert and you have a friend for most of the game. If you wait and they get a different religion, you could be in trouble. The whole point of the early religions are to spread them around and make friends. Then when you get your shire, you're rolling in the cash!
     
  14. Nestorius

    Nestorius Prince

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    Leave founding religions to the superstitious AI, and concentrate on early cottages instead. That way you can finance a military large enough to deter would-be attackers.
     
  15. opensilo

    opensilo Warlord

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    Try this recipe and see how it suits you.

    SETUP
    1) Prince, pangea, speed normal/epic/marathon, everything else as you like it.
    1) Choose any/random leader

    FIRST STEPS
    2) Research mining (if you don't start with it), bronze
    3) Your starting scout/warrior looks to find nearby civs. You don't need to actually see the cities, but you should know where the nearby civs are. You can tell by color which civ they are. Secondary aim is to pop huts, but scouting is the most important.
    4) Build a worker if you start with mining, a warrior if without (the goal is to get your worker to be ready within about a turn of researching bronze working
    5) Get your capital to size two. Build a warrior if you still have scouting to do. Start a barracks if you don't, but switch to worker when you reach size two.
    6) Chop down forests near your capital with your first worker to get a second worker.

    DECISION POINT
    7) Big question: where's the copper? You need to hook it up ASAP. For the purposes of this exercise, restart if you don't have copper within 10 squares of you capital. (I don't recommend this generally, but this is a specific exercise.)
    8) Second warrior does scouting if first scout/warrior got killed. Secondary duty is keeping the fog of war clear around your copper site.
    9) Chop a settler with your two workers.
    10) Get that second city set up so that a) you have copper, and b) it has a good mixture of food and production.
    11) While waiting to get the copper hooked up, build barracks in one or both cities.
    12) If you have a barracks in your capital, build warriors. This will let the city grow and provide garrisons for your first few cities.
    13) Once copper is hooked up, make sure both of your cities are connected by roads

    WAR PREPARATIONS
    14) At this point you should have two cities with barracks, two workers and a few warriors. Make sure there is at least one warrior in each city to keep the people happy. It is time to build up the troops.
    15) Chop another worker if you have lots of trees.
    16) Set your cities' citizens to work tiles so that the cities will grow as quickly as possible to maximum happy size. If your happiness limit is 6, you want to get to size 6 as quickly as possible, but you don't want to grow to size 7. This will mean that you will switch from food to production (hills, forests) tiles. At max happy, stagnate your growth.
    17) Set both cities to produce axemen. Chop forests. Use axemen and extra warriors (if any) to protect your workers from barbarians if outside your city borders.
    18) After you've got bronze and roads, your research goals are a) worker techs for any nearby resources (agri for corn, animal husbandry for pigs, hunting for elephants or deer, etc.)

    MARCH TO WAR
    18) When you have 8 axemen, it is time to attack. Pick your target. Your target civ is the one with its capital nearest your cities. You should know who this is because of your scouting. Tiebreaker: Choose the civ with the best looking cities over the one that's surrounded by deserts or jungles.
    19) Group all your axemen together as a single stack. Do not promote them yet.
    20) Use one of your two workers to build roads to the enemy territory
    21) Use your other worker to improve the production capacity of your capital
    22) Build another worker in whichever of your cities can build it the fastest
    23) Other than this third worker, build nothing but axemen in both your cities.
    24) Use your workers to build a few mines to maximize production. Then, put them to work chopping out axemen again.
    25) March your 8-axeman stack to the nearest city of your target civ
    26) If you can attack a worker of your target civ, this is ideal. Then you don't need to build a third of your own, or you'll have an extra.
    27) Continue to produce axemen in your two core cities, but also improve the land around them

    ATTACK
    27) You are now at the outskirts of the nearest city (to yours) of your target civ with a stack of 8 unpromoted axemen. Their city is defended with two or three archers. You are standing on a forested/jungled hill, in a forest, or on a hill if at all possible. You are not standing across a river from the city!
    28) If you are aggressive, your first promotion will be cover (bonus against archers). If you are not aggressive, your first promotion will be city raider (CR). In any case, each subsequent promotion will be more CR.
    29) Promote each unit as it prepares to attack--but only if it needs it. Check the attack odds by holding the right mouse button down but not releasing as you target the enemy city. If the odds are above 95% (because the archer is wounded having killed one of your axemen), do not promote before the fight.
    30) Take the city. You might lose a few axemen. Mourn them briefly while the core cities train more to replace them and send them this way along the roads your worker is building to support the assault.

    BRIEF REGROUP
    31) You want to have at least 6 fully healthy axemen before moving on to the next city. If this means you wait until reinforcements arrive, so be it. Wait with your troops in the newly captured city while the resistance settles down so you don't have to pay unit support costs.
    32) Don't let your workers get killed
    33) Expect a slight counterassault from the enemy civ, perhaps toward your core cities if they bordered you with two cities. Absorb the counterassault with troops fortified on defensive terrain. If they send lots, promote to woodsman and maybe have two units defending.
    34) Promote wounded axemen the first turn after the city attack. This will shorten their healing time. Since they will have had 4 exp from the barracks, a single successful attack will earn them another promotion. Choose the next city raider promotion for them.
    35) When you have 6 fully healthy axemen, move on to the next city. I doubt if the AI will have more than two cities. (Wait until they are size two before attacking, otherwise, they vaporate.)
    36) Leave your weakest axeman in the city as a garrison. It's okay if he's still healing.
    37) Keep churning out axemen in the core cities and sending them to the front. Use captured workers to chop barracks and axemen in the new cities.

    CONTINUE
    38) If you did this quickly enough, you can repeat with another civ. It may have more cities and more defensive troops, but you have promoted axemen and more production capacity which will more than compensate.
    39) Note that the AI likes to send out archer/settler parties even as you're laying siege to their cities. Engage them on open ground, and it'll be mostly free experience for your troops and a worker for your empire.
    40) When you reach about 6-7 cities total, you will need to stop and concentrate on the economy for a while. Get some workers out there improving and consolidating your empire. Put extra troops in your cities that border aggressive neighbors, but they will likely respect you enough to attack someone else.

    NOTES
    41) You will likely be in a much better situation with your new 6-city empire than you would have been by founding 3 cities of your own.
    42) You can now be a builder for a while. Put up some city improvements. Pick a religion from among your captured cities.
    43) Research your way to pottery, alphabet and then to construction and iron working. Get some cottages down to pay for your fabulous empire. Maybe do some tech trades.
    44) When your economy is taking off, it's time to start thinking about the next war. Put together a couple strike groups of 5-6 catapults, 4 swordsmen and 2 axemen and pick another civ to conquer. Choose the nearest one with a high score. AI score tends to go to the civ with the best land, and that's the land you want. The nearby cities will cost less to maintain. The pyramids are nice to have, so you might want to conquer that civ if it's convenient....

    END NOTES
    45) You can continue warmongering if you like. Or, once you're above double or triple the land of your nearest competitor (check the demographics screen), you can be a builder and win that way.
    46) There are many modifications that you can play with here. What happens if you don't have copper? What if you are Incan and want to rush even earlier with once city and quechuas? But the point of this recipe is to develop a taste for rapid expansion where the cities are founded by the AI (or barbarians) instead of by your settlers.
    47) Continents and especially isolated starts are another ball game, but the skills you learn by cooking this recipe will help.
    48) Land=power. Power= more land. Better land sooner = More power to ya!

    ENJOY
     
  16. cabert

    cabert Big mouth

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    nice exercise opensilo ;)
     
  17. Legio X

    Legio X Chieftain

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    I took what you wrote earlier in account and played a new game. I founded Hinduism, and then went on to Bronze working (at least I think it's called that, maybe copper). After this I went on to Monotheism. When I had founded Judaism as well I had no need to continue down the cultural path because my cities generated Great People all the time somehow. So I balanced it out, traded some techs and came to understand the value of balacing your techs.
     
  18. cabert

    cabert Big mouth

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    what victory type are you trying for?
     
  19. Legio X

    Legio X Chieftain

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    Killing off the other civilizations. I'm trying to manage it with Caesar.
     
  20. cabert

    cabert Big mouth

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    If you go for praetorian wars, you just can not keep all cities you capture.
    Raze most of them, and you'll have far less maintenance. And if you play warmongering on large/huge maps and standard or quick speed, you'll have to stop sometimes to build up.
    Conquest is very hard on large/huge maps. It's also harder on faster speeds.

    Try a standard size game, with epic (or even better marathon) speed.
    Very much easier.
     

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