What is left of Republicanism?

Mark1031

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What were the purported strengths of the Republican Party?

Fiscal Conservativism: Well this is a joke. Large surplus to huge deficit in 5 years.

Libertarian Freedom/states rights. Terri Schivo. 2000 election decision.

National Security. Are we safer today? This has got to be the worst run war I can think of. We WILL lose ie. not achieve the goal of a free and democratic and western friendly Iraq.

Smaller Government: Government size has increased way more under Repub domination. 250 mil bridges to nowhere? 200 bill WPA project for Gulf coast.

Competent realism. Um competent at what? Wars to spread democracy to the world realism?

Family values: Pat Robertson advocates assignation. Male whores in the white house. During impeachment I believe they had to go through 3 speakers of the house to find one that wasn’t fooling around. TV seems to be getting rauncher to me.

Tax cutting: That’s all that is left. What political bravery to promise tax cuts.

Republicans please tell me why you are so. I’m not saying the Dems are great but from my POV things were much better under Clinton. I really think at this point in time divided government is best as when one party is in power they get drunk with power and $$ and everything else goes out the window.
 
Libertarian Freedom/states rights. Terri Schivo. 2000 election decision.
I stopped paying attention as soon as you mentioned the election. The law was followed, but I suppose you would have rather had them break the law so your guy could win.
 
h4ppy said:
I stopped paying attention as soon as you mentioned the election. The law was followed, but I suppose you would have rather had them break the law so your guy could win.

Okay, replace "2000 election" with "medical marijuana".
 
h4ppy said:
I stopped paying attention as soon as you mentioned the election. The law was followed, but I suppose you would have rather had them break the law so your guy could win.

Um the Supreme court decision was a reversial of historical state right of determining election rules. Why do you think we don't have a national standard for elections. And why did the Supreme court explicitly say that this ruling was a one time special and should not be used as prescident.
 
Mark1031 said:
And why did the Supreme court explicitly say that this ruling was a one time special and should not be used as prescident.
They're actually able to do that?
 
WillJ said:
They're actually able to do that?

That's why they are calld Supreme. They can do whatever the hell they want.
 
The Republican party remains faithful to the CEOs of America. They have set the stage for a permanent repeal of Davis Bacon Act. No bid contracts abound both here and abroad. That's got to count for something.
 
The purpose of a political party is not to advance a particular idealogy, but rather to win election for itself and its members.

To do this, of course, it must offer a certain program, but this is usually designed to be able to win votes. In the Clinton years and before, fiscal conservatism was a way to win votes. These days, it is no longer necessary, and votes can be won in other ways.
 
SeleucusNicator said:
The purpose of a political party is not to advance a particular idealogy, but rather to win election for itself and its members.

To do this, of course, it must offer a certain program, but this is usually designed to be able to win votes. In the Clinton years and before, fiscal conservatism was a way to win votes. These days, it is no longer necessary, and votes can be won in other ways.
Tax cuts and smear campaigns, really.
 
Conservative reactions to this speech have been very interesting. They seem to be of two minds about the whole thing. On the one hand, most people think the speech was well-delivered and likely to be popular. As Hugh Hewitt put it:
Perfect pitch returned tonight, and the president's looks backward and forward were on target. As Chris Matthews observed, it sounded a little LBJ/FDR-like in its vows about the underclass of the recovery region, but that is exactly why it worked so well: That is what needs to happen, and he identified the best approaches in the empowerment of entrepeneurs and the retraining of the evacuees. The enterprise zone could prove a turbo charged motor to the effort, and the promise of innovation was well delivered.

…

Finally, the serious notes he sounded on the need to review and improve the emergency plans across the country, and to empower the American military to become the first responder when scale requires it, was exceptionally well delivered. Millions of Americans had to have heard this portion of the speech from this man and concluded that he is very serious indeed about fixing the gaps.
On the whole, very few people think that Bush failed to deliver an effective speech, and many are downright jubilant at the reaction the speech seemed to get from the Astrodome residents.
All of those interviewed at the Astrodome were black. They were all evacuees from New Orleans. When the first person was asked if she believed the President she said “yes.” She said that what the President said lifted her up and gave her hope. When the reporter questioned her about the slow response of the federal government, she said they did a good job once they got there and that she blamed the local and state officials, who had not done their jobs. She said they were the ones there when the storm hit and they did not do what they needed to do. Then she got on a rant about the buses that were not used. She later said she blamed Mayor Nagin personally.
However, there is definitely a subset of conservative voices that is less than impressed. Leading the charge would be the conservative blogger tacitus, with his blistering criticism.
Tax credits for rebuilding is okay. Urban homesteading is okay. The rest of the President's address from New Orleans? Everything one has come to fear within the past five years.

What, then, did we learn from President Bush this evening?
  • The Republican Party has come full circle from, "Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem," to an acceptance of the primacy of government responsibility for all things.
  • We will ignore the deadly lessons of having established a major city at water's edge below sea level in the name of a vapid resolution to rebuild.
  • The Federal government cannot run an evacuation and relief effort properly, but it does a magnificent job of televised stage-setting in a disaster area.
  • The hallmark of a successful recovery effort is the extension of the state's noodly appendages to the American refugee diaspora. Indeed, thank the Lord that the good people of New Orleans are now within reach of the Departments Health and Human Services and Labor, the Social Security Administration, and the Postal Service.

    …
  • Despite its having botched its own efforts, aggressively stymied those of others, and incompetently asserted its considerable power in the opening days of the catastrophe, the lesson of New Orleans is that we need "greater federal authority" for future such events.
  • The Federal government is abandoning the primacy of the civil disaster-response mechanisms that generally served us well in the past, in favor of a purely illusory conception of the military as somehow inherently more efficient, swift, and effective.

How apt that we thus begin the rebuilding of a metropolis on muck.
Other conservative bloggers agree. Some are downright paranoid.
...which got me thinking. What if the Democrats aren't attacking Bush because they dislike him, or because they're really opposed to regime change in Iraq, or because they equate him with Hitler, or because they really oppose the FBI looking into library records, or because they are really dissatisfied with the federal response to Katrina, but because they know that his Pavlovian, knee-jerk response to criticism is to throw money at anything and everything around him?
So…we appear to have a divide. On the one hand, virtually everyone thinks this speech was a great victory for Republicans. On the other, quite a few think it was a very bad speech for conservatives.

As SN points out, the purpose of political parties is to win elections. Does that mean Republicans are justified in abandoning conservative ideals in order to maintain political power? Or does it mean that the embrace of massive spending and ever-bigger government are now conservative values? Can conservatives realistically separate themselves from Republican actions done in their name, or will the conservative movement end up being associated with everything Republican?

I'm neither a Republican or a conservative, so I can't really answer the first two. But as to the third, my vote is a resounding no. Everything in this country goes into one of two camps, and I don't think conservatives will be any more successful at avoiding blame for Republican actions than liberals were at disassociating themselves from certain Democratic ones. If I'm right, some conservatives should be concerned.
 
SeleucusNicator said:
The purpose of a political party is not to advance a particular idealogy, but rather to win election for itself and its members.
Clearly, you have no experience of Europe's various Green parties.
 
Yes well I'm wondering how long conservatives and even neocons can hold their nose and support this guy. I mean I think his real support from the average person comes from the holy rollers and all he has to do to keep them is throw in a few mentions of God and faith in the speeches and they swoon. I suspect that support is about 30 percent and the only way he loses it is to have a gay affair. But with Republicans in charge of everything we're getting absolutely no cutting of government programs. Maybe a few regulatory changes around the edges and symbolic few hundred million from various programs but in general the trajectory is up and the pork and last highway bill was absolutely obscene way beyond any past administrations or congresses. The hegemonic dreams of neocons have been stopped dead in their tracks by the incompetence in the Iraq. Granted I don't think they could have succeeded as their premise (welcomed as liberators) was wrong but Bush certainly couldn't have screwed up any worse than he did. I'm not sure where the conservatives and neocons would go though, certainly not to the Democrats. So the question is what will the Republican Party become as far as I can tell it's becoming the party hardy don't worry about tomorrow the rapture will save us all party.

And as far as SNs point. Sure parties and there to get their members elected and rhetoric and election strategy need not overlap with governing for a while but it will eventually catch up with any party. People have a way worse view of Democrats relative to their actual governing and a way better view of Republicans. I think the last five years and the comparison to the Clinton years will begin to strip that away. They're going get down to only having the God card. Perhaps that's enough but at some point people will want to have a job and be able to fill up their car with gas just in case the rapture doesn't come as soon as expected.
 
Mark1031 said:
Um the Supreme court decision was a reversial of historical state right of determining election rules. Why do you think we don't have a national standard for elections. And why did the Supreme court explicitly say that this ruling was a one time special and should not be used as prescident.
Even a libertarian would say that the Federal Government determining its election is logical. Not that that matters as I'm sure there is a hidden half truth in your post. (I can't really debate this point to well since I didn't care about politics that much in 2000, as a matter of fact I went McCain->Gore in that election) As to why the ruling was a one time thing, I'll go out on a limb and say becuase the case was special and unique.
 
Mark1031 said:
TV seems to be getting rauncher to me.

are you saying the government should be in control of TV programming?
 
I'm glad to see this thread. I always claim to be a conservative, so people assume I am a Republican. It's nice not to have to explain that the Republicans aren't conservative anymore.
 
As I've grown more conservative, I've grown more disgusted with the Republican party.

Even if the Republican party was destroyed, it would still ruin the conservative movement. Their momentum will still carry them for half a century, no matter how much respect they lose.
 
What's even more pathetic is how quickly they ruined themselves. They've controlled Congress for, what, a decade now, and only had a President for five? And already I can't see them recovering.
 
I really don’t care if we have President that is a conservative, liberal, Republican, Democrat, or Communazi anymore. Just please can we have someone who is competent with economic matters and cares about the future of America?!
 
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