What is the best way to play infernals?

[Vulcans]

The if you chose to be infernal then the game only really starts when you reach infernal pact. Therefore getting there ASAP would be of highest priority to start the real game as soon as possible.

So what is the best strat for getting to infernal pact as soon as possible?

I’m thinking that founding OO at a early date could also be beneficial as an intermediate stage, as then putting a bit of effort into rapidly spreading it across the whole world before ROK or FOL becomes widely spread. That means that if you get most of the world to be OO then when you eventually become infernal with AV you can declare war on the rest of the world (which is all OO) and get lots of mane daemons from killing them as they are evlil (or you can get them to fight each other to supply you with mane daemons), hey a holy war of AV verses OO could give a lot of mane deamons.

Naturally the great person from writing should be used for lightbulbing as opposed to academy as you’ll abandon the old cities soon enough (Is there somewhere I can check the lightbulbing order?).

Then after becoming infernal I guess you want to be focusing on spreading ashenveil, spreading hellfire terrain etc. cast helfire wherever you can, turn the world into burning sands.

I’m guessing it would be important to build prophesy of ragnarok, helfire rutual, deamons altar, soul forge, reliquary, infernal grilmoire. build up the AC

You can’t capture cities, but you’d need some production/income to support the war machine, so that means a few settlers at the start. Beefing it up with

Now I guess the choice of initial race is not important for the end game as you’ll abandon them when you become infernal, so you also don’t really care about infrastructure etc. the main thing is getting early research to get to infernal pact as early as possible in the game. i guess building up a army early is also pointless as you will be abandoning the civilisation, as long as you get to infernal pact before someone declares on your lightly defended civ.

Being calabim could be interesting, making size 50 cities, then when you turn infernal you go and raze the old vampire cities that are now controlled by the AI, giving 50 manes. Naturally that’s easier if you spawn near the old vampire civ.

Oh yeah, and I would probably also add clan of the embers to the map, just to help the Armageddon counter.

I’d also like to play a similar game with high AC but be sheam to see the full effect of planar gates.

so what is the fastest way to get to infenral pact? and what is the best way to play infernals? synergies? civic choices etc?

 

[Vulcans]

and does the AI know that it should move a unit onto the helfire terrain to destroy it? or does it leave helfire terrain in the centre of their teritory?

 

[jwin]

You don't necessarily want to get infernal pact as quickly as possible. Infernal's research is slow at the beginning, and if you don't have some of the basics, like archery, horseback, priesthood, etc, it will take forever to get what you need. Don't wait too long, or hyborem will have to fight alot of tier 4 units early, and probably get killed.

The last time I played them was in .22, and you could capture cities. In the wiki, it doesn't have scorched earth or them. You just don't get the bonus buildings.

Beore switching civs, I make sure at least one other civ has switched to AV or OO. Starting as sheim is the easiest, but you will be leaving a civ that relies more on units that wont have AV promotion (the ones made by the planar gate), so you won't get as many manes from them. Playing one of the other races will give you more in the long run.

Also make sure you know where reagents are before switching. Getting them should be one of your top priorities, as ritualists with summoning is very powerful, as is the possibility of getting the patriarch to pull people into joining you in a war.

I mae sure my first great person was an engineer to build the prophecy beore my first civ did; I think it helped having control over the AC counter. Then, build spearmen and upgrade them rather than building more expensive units. You will raze the counter faster

Yes, other civs will destroy your hellfires (and barrows if you are the clan) You can either have closed borders or don't use them. I was kind of disapointed in them.

For victory conditions, religion is the easiest way to go, but you have to go back and take over the AV holy city. If you do it late, after you have raised the AC alot, they will still like you no matter what you do because of the "you are destroying the world" bonus. Just take the city, and you can be their friend again (after you raze a few others if you need manes).

It is easy to keep the barb trait if you don't beat much on your old civ. They should have a fairly competitive score before switching. Don't go above 50% more than the next civ if you don't want to have to worry about the horsemen and avatar.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Being calabim could be interesting, making size 50 cities, then when you turn infernal you go and raze the old vampire cities that are now controlled by the AI, giving 50 manes. Naturally that’s easier if you spawn near the old vampire civ.

Calabim doesn't have that big an advantage in growing cities (just a building with +1 food, -2 health). It'd be easier to build big cities as elves, I expect, but if you are doing it to raze them make sure they don't get the Ashen Veil first.

 

[The Tyrant]

Here is one way to create a decent start for Hyborem, but be warned that it isn't foolproof. I tried it and found that there was still some open area on the map. When I switched to playing the infernals, I found that Hyborem had spawned halfway across the world (pangea). It took forever for me to trek back to my former civ's lands and I had to declare war on an AI just so I could pass through his territory enroute. There were quite a number of decent defenders when I finally made it back to my former capital. It all worked out eventually, but it was more difficult than I was expecting. If there is any open space left on the map you could lose a lot of turns making a long trek back to your capital.

 

[Vulcans]

thanks, that looks like a very interesting post. it looks like it could be quite a different game.

how does it calculate where he will appear if all the land is taken up?

i guess one method could be to make an open space, by declaring and razing a few cities of your neighbours land. however that would mean some military investment in the prior civ(which is pointless if you're going to disbang them), which could slow you down in the initial phase, but it could secure you with a nearby starting location.

i heard everyone declares on you as soon as you become hyborem, is it good to somehow instigate a world war beforehand, so they'll be initially all fighting each other aswell, and so won't pay any attention to you?

 

[Nikis-Knight]

i heard everyone declares on you as soon as you become hyborem,

I don't think that this is so. What will happen for sure is that Basium and his ally will declare war on the Infernals no matter what.

 

[Vulcans]

i guess there is just a big risk, especially with the good civs, as there will be a negative relation modifier, and they\ll have a vastly superior army, making you a quick target.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Actually, if Basium is summoned fast enough, before Hyborem gets a chance to build a city and switch to the AV, then he doesn't seem to automatically declare war. It seems the auto-declaration only works when Basium forst enters the world, and is only against those with the AV state religion declared.

 

[The Tyrant]

how does it calculate where he will appear if all the land is taken up?

Found it. I knew I had seen the formula somewhere. It is in the wiki.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Mercurians cannot show up until Infernals do. I think.

War aggressively I guess. The infernals have powerful units, you just need a bigger empire. As for making sure they have a good place to spawn... that's to risky to rely on anyway.

Mercurians are so much easier relatively, since you can give them a nice city to start off. But even then, the AI won't play either effectively, because warmongering over strange starting conditions is not something any closed program coding can manage. How can you program an AI that learns like neural networking, unless it somehow "remembers" what happened last time it played such strange conditions?

 

[kiaace]

my favourite part of infernals is that random units spawn when the AC is high enough. Then again, if you use 1 rite( dunno what) you can clear all demons off the map. That could hurt...

 

[Calbrenar]

The if you chose to be infernal then the game only really starts when you reach infernal pact. Therefore getting there ASAP would be of highest priority to start the real game as soon as possible.

So what is the best strat for getting to infernal pact as soon as possible?

I’m thinking that founding OO at a early date could also be beneficial as an intermediate stage, as then putting a bit of effort into rapidly spreading it across the whole world before ROK or FOL becomes widely spread. That means that if you get most of the world to be OO then when you eventually become infernal with AV you can declare war on the rest of the world (which is all OO) and get lots of mane daemons from killing them as they are evlil (or you can get them to fight each other to supply you with mane daemons), hey a holy war of AV verses OO could give a lot of mane deamons.

Naturally the great person from writing should be used for lightbulbing as opposed to academy as you’ll abandon the old cities soon enough (Is there somewhere I can check the lightbulbing order?).

Then after becoming infernal I guess you want to be focusing on spreading ashenveil, spreading hellfire terrain etc. cast helfire wherever you can, turn the world into burning sands.

I’m guessing it would be important to build prophesy of ragnarok, helfire rutual, deamons altar, soul forge, reliquary, infernal grilmoire. build up the AC

You can’t capture cities, but you’d need some production/income to support the war machine, so that means a few settlers at the start. Beefing it up with

Now I guess the choice of initial race is not important for the end game as you’ll abandon them when you become infernal, so you also don’t really care about infrastructure etc. the main thing is getting early research to get to infernal pact as early as possible in the game. i guess building up a army early is also pointless as you will be abandoning the civilisation, as long as you get to infernal pact before someone declares on your lightly defended civ.

Being calabim could be interesting, making size 50 cities, then when you turn infernal you go and raze the old vampire cities that are now controlled by the AI, giving 50 manes. Naturally that’s easier if you spawn near the old vampire civ.

Oh yeah, and I would probably also add clan of the embers to the map, just to help the Armageddon counter.

I’d also like to play a similar game with high AC but be sheam to see the full effect of planar gates.

so what is the fastest way to get to infenral pact? and what is the best way to play infernals? synergies? civic choices etc?

OO doesnt' make you evil so I'd advise against spreading it if you want manes.

 

[kiaace]

i tried this quite effectively. I spam settlers for cities, workers for food(farms) get infernal pact then kill em' all with hyborem. Don't build military, or anything that increases hammers then you can take them with anything.

 

[xienwolf]

Cute idea, but with the Demonic Citizens Building not being available in captured cities, how well does that actually work for you in practice?

 

[Calbrenar]

Not to mention if you wait until you hav esize 50 vampire cities before summoning hypoborem then you might as well stay calabim who are insanely powerful at that point rather then switching to infernals which would suck coming in so late game.

 

[kiaace]

but the 50 pop can be used as they heve no soldiers. And you can focus them into 1 city with XXX amounts of people without food.