what is the civic that you least use?

[ace94d]

I hate Merchantilism. It always Ruins my Economy when I use it. So that's my vote.

 

[Elhoim]

Pacifism...

 

[Öjevind Lång]

Mercantilism is often pretty useful. It depends what you're trying to accomplish. Also, whether you're in Representation and/or Caste System.

"Ambientalism" must be what in English is "Environmentalism". That, and Serfdom, are virtually useless.

On reflection, I want to change my vote. I voted for Serfdom, but I could imagine using it sometime, if I were Spiritual and could easily switch back and forth to Slavery. I can't imagine ever using Environmentalism. First, because the game is gone by the time you get it. Secondly, because the forests and jungles are gone by the time you get it. Thirdly, because even if the game is continuing, more health and happiness wouldn't be particularly useful at that stage.

I disagree about Environmentalism being useless. Keeping at least a few forested tiles in each city is an excellent idea, which is why the AI does it a lot. Especially if you want to stick to Caste System and generate lots of Great People, environmentalism is a great way to counteract the unhappiness at the lack of Emanicpation.

I know some gamers say that they have to chop everything in order to produce what they need in time, but I disagree. Also, if one chops judiciously (that is, preserving contiguous forested tiles which certainly do not all have to be inside the fat cross), then new forests will grow up quite frequently, and they can be harvested again - judiciously.

Öjevind

 

[Öjevind Lång]

Why? Environmentalism is not equal to scientific progress, it just means you are more conscious of not destroying the planet around you.

Currently, scientists and engineers spend a lot of time trying to figure out ways to deal with pollution, global warming, overpopualtion and the other evils which industrialism has brought beside all the advantages. There is always a spinoff effect. So I do think Environmentalism should give a small scientific bonus as well.

Also, I think the ability to replant forests should be brought back. It could be part of some 19th century technology, or a new one called Forestry. I believe that it was in Civ III that you could chop forests for production, and then replant the forests, but the first patch disabled the ability to chop the same tile twice for production. The reason for that was obvious, of course.

Öjevind

 

[Antilogic]

That is a contemporary thing. As for scientists and engineers in 1900, their focus was quite different. Such as on how to maximize production and discover the basic nature of the world.

The thing is, by your logic, I could just as easily say a hypothetical "Militarism" civic should increase your research as well, because you are trying to find new ways of killing people. And, for the contemporary reference, let's take World War II--look at the before and after technology snapshots...that war really pushed the limits of human knowledge.

The fact is, I believe you are trying to represent a "secondary" effect of environmentalism with that civic. In order to keep the game simple and streamlined, I advocate we stay with the current Firaxian system of only representing "primary" effects of the civic unless absolutely necessary (that Free Religion research boost just reeks of them not finding enough of a primary bonus...as does that workshop food thing for State Property). That way, the system stays relatively simple and easy to grasp.

Plus, Environmentalism already has 2 obvious effects...just work with those, that's my vote.

 

[Thedrin]

The fact is, I believe you are trying to represent a "secondary" effect of environmentalism with that civic. In order to keep the game simple and streamlined, I advocate we stay with the current Firaxian system of only representing "primary" effects of the civic unless absolutely necessary (that Free Religion research boost just reeks of them not finding enough of a primary bonus...as does that workshop food thing for State Property). That way, the system stays relatively simple and easy to grasp.

That and the increased populations will probably be generating more beakers anyway.

 

[kristopherb]

i bet the enviromentalism is like the jaguar half of the poeple slag it off even though they haven't used ,its good for mordern starts and you find that the starting place has jungles

bureaucracy is bad its med and it affects one city even though it produces more money then it luses i prefer vassalage

police state is the high upkeep represent is chaeper and it provides science and combined with vassalage its to expancive to run

 

[Swedishguy]

bureaucracy is bad its med and it affects one city even though it produces more money then it luses i prefer vassalage

Don't you think it's kinda good in the one city challenge? And it's pure gold if you have an organized trait and is going cultural.

 

[drkodos]

The thing is, by your logic, I could just as easily say a hypothetical "Militarism" civic should increase your research as well, because you are trying to find new ways of killing people. And, for the contemporary reference, let's take World War II--look at the before and after technology snapshots...that war really pushed the limits of human knowledge.

This is very worth arguing/debating.

Reality is that even back in the Ancient eras represented in the game, it was military goals that fueled almost all scientific advancement. It really was not until the Renaissance and the scientific method becomming firmly established that the notion that science was about unlocking and understanding the universe (or parts of it) became an idea and the focal point of scientific endeavor.

Wars have always catapulted technologies. And of great interest is that quite often the side that loses the war and become subjugated are the peoples that tend to benefit the most (in the long run) from the science and techno advancements wrought from the war. The reasons for this are complex and dynamic and would take several pages to really get at, but just look at the technology gaps between US and Japan and US and Germany in the current modern world as one such example. It is not always the case, but more often than not it is.


Therefore, when at war, research rates should be given a 10% bonus.

 

[StarWorms]

There are a few that I just never use... Mercantilism, Pacifism, Environmentalism

 

[ms2050]

Police State, I think.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

There are a few that I just never use... Mercantilism, Pacifism, Environmentalism

If you haven't yet built up your army, Pacifism is great for generating Great People. If you urgently need a specialist of a certain kind and your neighbours are (currently) not too much of a danger, try it until you have produced a GP or two. If Mercantilism is available, that facilitates matters, and if all the civs your are in contact with run Mercantilism or do not have Open Borders with you (or are too far away to be able to trade with you), it is quite worthwhile to have Mercantilism for a while. Incidentally, running Mercantilism is the only way to become friends with Tokugawa; he loves people who sport Mercantilism. And once you and he have been pals for a while and exchanged technologies and traded, he is likely to remain friendly to you even if you switch to Free Trade. He remembers the fair and forthright trading, and so forth. He may even have adopted your religion as a favour to you or because you have spread it widely in his realm; because once Tokugawa starst to like you he will even sign an Open Borders agreement - he might be the one who suggests it, even. And since Tokugawa almost never founds a religion himself, he is likely to stay in the fold.

 

[kbmusiclover]

I never use caste system. In fact, I hardly ever use serfdom either... Labor Civics are where I'm most picky. I can't stand not having a method of hurry-up available, so I almost always have Slavery, or I might have Emancipation going if Universal Suffrage is available.

MY FAVORITES:

Government: Universal Suffrage or Representation. I'm not too fond of Hereditary Rule because I don't often have too many units unless I'm in a large-scale war. Representation is good because of the increased happiness, and Universal Suffrage is good because of the convenient hurry-up method.

Legal: Bureaucracy or Free Speech. I really like Bureaucracy because I like having a bunch of culture in my capital city by going for Wonders, but I also like Free Speech because of the extra culture it grants (when I play, I'm always the #1 culture person on the map, it's just my style).

Labor: Slavery or Emancipation. See above.

Economy: State Property. That thing is really useful because I like having cities on remote islands and stuff.

Religion: Pacifism. I'm always pretty much forced, eventually, to switch to Free Religion, but I put that off as long as possible, because I LOVE Great People (I especially try to get Great Artists) and I'm not a military guy, as I already stated.

 

[drkodos]

Religion: Pacifism. I'm always pretty much forced, eventually, to switch to Free Religion, but I put that off as long as possible, because I LOVE Great People (I especially try to get Great Artists) and I'm not a military guy, as I already stated.

If you LOVE Great People you should rethink your ideas about Caste system. It is usually available much earlier than Pacifism and when leveraged properly is amazingly powerful. It is just that it is not a straightforward civic to use and get the most out of that people shy from it.

If you want Great Artists, Caste system is one of the very best ways via civic choice to generate them. Even more so than Pacifism because Pacifism only gives it bonus to those cities that have the state religion. Caste sytem is ubiquitous.

For best results, run both.

 

[Swedishguy]

If you LOVE Great People you should rethink your ideas about Caste system. It is usually available much earlier than Pacifism and when leveraged properly is amazingly powerful. It is just that it is not a straightforward civic to use and get the most out of that people shy from it.

If you want Great Artists, Caste system is one of the very best ways via civic choice to generate them. Even more so than Pacifism because Pacifism only gives it bonus to those cities that have the state religion. Caste sytem is ubiquitous.

For best results, run both.

For Peter, pacifism is a MUST!

 

[Revolutionary]

yeah I've never used Environmentalism either...