What is the worst thing a barb can do to you???

[NickyH]

Yeah, but that's ten turns now you don't have to wait. If you can research Republic in 10 turns, you come out ahead.

But I can see where that would be frustrating.

It's all the turns it takes to research republic that counts. I think it was about 12-14 turns to research republic. Even if you've expanded fast, it costs many turns.

Maybe I gained a little compared to doing all the research in the honest hard working way, but many turns were stolen from the path I had expected. Goody huts usually don't cost you anything. You get an inconvenient barb warrior in the worst case.

*still almost mad*

 

[darski]

Yeah, but that's ten turns now you don't have to wait. If you can research Republic in 10 turns, you come out ahead.

But I can see where that would be frustrating.

ok... this brings up an issue I find in my games and it has been in both Vanilla and Complete...

It takes 50 turns to learn Republic if I don't get the slingshot. Bpt doesn't even come into it. It's 50 and that is all there is to it. Can anyone explain this phenomenon? (yes, I know the slingshot is not in Vanilla)

Sorry for the thread jack but this drives me nuts. (Oh yeah, I play at Warlord or Regent - if that matters)

 

[Turner]

50 turns is the maximum amount of turns that a tech can take to be learned. So if you were to do a minimum science (1 bpt) you'd get that tech in 50 turns.

Why would you want to do that? If everyone is ahead of you in tech, then you can do min/sci and take all of that as gold. Then you can buy the techs and keep up in military and/or techs, hopefully.

For the record, in VC3/PTW it's 40 turns.

 

[darski]

50 turns is the maximum amount of turns that a tech can take to be learned. So if you were to do a minimum science (1 bpt) you'd get that tech in 50 turns.

Why would you want to do that? If everyone is ahead of you in tech, then you can do min/sci and take all of that as gold. Then you can buy the techs and keep up in military and/or techs, hopefully.

For the record, in VC3/PTW it's 40 turns.

No, I wasn't clear. it doesn't matter where I put the slider 10% to 100% it still takes 50 turns to get Republic. Beakers just don't count - it's all turns.

Now if I get the slingshot, obviously that is different but in research it takes 50 turns and no options.

Regarding Vanilla, I should have said that it takes the full maximum turns rather than saying 50 turns. But it did take 40 turns, no options there.

I never research Monarchy so I don't know if the same thing would happen there or not. I should try researching it in my next game to see what happens.

 

[Turner]

No, you were clear. I guess I wasn't. What I was saying without saying it is that you're not producing enough beakers. So even at 100% it would take you longer than 50 turns to learn the tech. So since it will take longer then 50 you get it in 50 because that's the maximum number of turns that it takes to learn a tech.

In the editor, Philosophy has a tech cost of 6. Republic, 28. That's almost 5 times more for Republic than the Philosophy you just learned. Monarchy's cost is 24, so you might see something simular.

 

[anaxagoras]

Just to follow up on Turner's point, it is quite possible to get Republic in less than 50 turns if you are manic about generating commerce (which I recommend). If this isn't you, make sure you are using enough workers, and using them efficiently.

 

[darski]

Just to follow up on Turner's point, it is quite possible to get Republic in less than 50 turns if you are manic about generating commerce (which I recommend). If this isn't you, make sure you are using enough workers, and using them efficiently.

Believe me, I have the worker thing down to a science. All the commerce in the world is not going to help so I just generally go 10% science since it doesn't matter anyway.

 

[anaxagoras]

All the commerce in the world is not going to help so I just generally go 10% science since it doesn't matter anyway.

What I'm trying to say is, commerce does help. If Republic is always taking you 50 turns, then either you don't have enough roads, or you don't have enough cities. If you are really interested in figuring out what is going on, find a game where you had this problem, upload the save, and let's talk about it.

There's no reason that Republic has to take 50 turns to research, even if you head straight for the sling and miss.

 

[capnvonbaron]

No, I wasn't clear. it doesn't matter where I put the slider 10% to 100% it still takes 50 turns to get Republic. Beakers just don't count - it's all turns.

Now if I get the slingshot, obviously that is different but in research it takes 50 turns and no options.

Regarding Vanilla, I should have said that it takes the full maximum turns rather than saying 50 turns. But it did take 40 turns, no options there.

I never research Monarchy so I don't know if the same thing would happen there or not. I should try researching it in my next game to see what happens.

Hrm.. what map size are we talking about?

In vanilla, on a regent standard map, I usually get 'republic' quoted at around 20 turns (never above 30, seldom below 18), and usually knock a turn or three off in the meantime because I typically try and aquire liturature and build a few libraries in the meantime. I'll put the science slider at a value that will leave me nearly broke at the end of research, because I usually count on a pile of money coming in after I get out of depotism and typically fire up the GA right after.

Now, this might just be me because I tend to be more of a 'builder' in the early part of the game, so if the enemy shows up with lots of sharpened sticks anytime before the middle ages, I'm generally screwed (i build a minimum of units until knights/pikes are available. Unless I'm persian... in which case, ima huge fan of the 1000BC immortal rush!!1 keke ^_^

Next time I play a regent, I'll make sure to see how many turns it takes me to get it, total from start, the tech path I take, and how many for just 'republic'...

 

[Spoonwood]

Disrespect The Ori. Especially by pledging their allegiance to Ba'al. That makes me want to zat'n'ktel the Unas... I mean barbarian.

 

[Spoonwood]

Darski said:

[It takes 50 turns to learn Republic if I don't get the slingshot. Bpt doesn't even come into it. It's 50 and that is all there is to it. Can anyone explain this phenomenon?]

As someone else said, you'll have to upload a save. 2., I doubt that's "all there is to it", because of the way the sliders and beakers work. If it says 50 at the beginning of researching something, it might not actually take 50 turns. That 50 just indicates how much it would cost at your current beaker rate. If the amount of beakers you have going to research per turn equals 4 beakers on turn 1 and you research Writing it'll read 50 turns. If you have 6 beakers within 10 turns, it'll drop at some point so you'll get it in some number of turns less than 50. I've seen the number of turns drop from 42 to 38 and things like that before.

The key lies in keeping your research at maximum even if it says 50, because you need the beakers invested during those turns if you want it to drop as low as possible. It comes as extremely hard, if not impossible, to start off at 10% and then raise it up 100% beakers later, since you'll only have invested 1 beaker on turns 1 through 3 instead of 4 beakers each on turns 1 through 3. That's 3 beakers over those 3 turns versus 12 beakers over those same 3 same turns. If you only have 3 beakers invested towards say Writing once, and think you can now change to max science of 5 beakers per turn and get Writing in less than 50 turns, the number of turns might not drop. But, if you had 12 beakers invested towards Writing it might drop. So, my *guess*, at what goes on for you Darski, comes as that you've assumed that your maximum beaker per turn rate stays constnat, and forgotten that your maximum beaker per turn rate *varies*. It varies, because your cities grow and you have more commerce as you have more roads and possibly even complete The Colossus, or have The Pyramids turn into a tourist attraction. You simply can't judge how long something will take to research in the ancient age by how long it says at the beginning of the research period.

You also said:
[Believe me, I have the worker thing down to a science. All the commerce in the world is not going to help so I just generally go 10% science since it doesn't matter anyway.]

No. Look, I know I just played an OCC game on Monarch, where I built The Colossus, and then The Pyramids shortly after I got Writing. I research Code of Laws, and then Philosophy, taking The Republic as my free tech. I know it said some number less than 50 for the number of turns it would have taken. Maybe you don't generally have games where you can get a lot of commerce fast, but I know more commerce *will* help.

 

[Sweetchuck]

50 turns for Republic?

No way - unless you have one city with zero improvements, I don't think it's possible. Are you so overloaded with units (and maintenance costs) that you can't ride the slider any more and not bankrupt yourself? Do you have libraries?

At worst, it should be around 15 or 20.

 

[darski]

50 turns for Republic?

No way - unless you have one city with zero improvements, I don't think it's possible. Are you so overloaded with units (and maintenance costs) that you can't ride the slider any more and not bankrupt yourself? Do you have libraries?

At worst, it should be around 15 or 20.

I go straight to the slingshot and may have 3 or four cities by the time I get there. Very, very rarely do I have a city built that is not already, or immediately after, connected to the others. My capital has roads for all worked tiles and most others have at least two tiles roaded as I connect my empire.

I usually have science at maximum until I get to Rep. if I have to research it. I only drop it when keeping it at 10 for Rep is a waste of money.

Regarding saves... I don't keep saves. They are discarded after every game. My game has been known to crash so I do save often and can have up to 50 to eliminate after the game. (yes, I do use auto save but JIC. )

 

[Spoonwood]

I only drop it when keeping it at 10 for Rep is a waste of money.

Put it at max even if it says 50. In *some* cases you'll get it in less than 50 turns since you'll grow in terms of commerce during the first 10 or 20 turns and thus lower the total time it takes to learn The Republic.

 

[Aigburth]

I'm thinking about the maths here: the first expansion is after 10 turns, so you wouldn't have built a settler by then yet. The next expansion is way later; surely you'll have popped that hut by then. Errr...I don't see how this can happen in the first place.

He could have popped a settler from another nearby hut in the first 10 turns.