What is thought of Quisling and the purges in Norway today?

[emzie]

As I understand it, after the war and hungry for vengeance, Norway executed the Nazi-appointed leader, Quisling, along with 30something others guilty of war crimes or treason. In addition to this, thousands were imprisoned / fined for coloration.

"Had it coming" or not, the trials and punishments strike me more of vengeance than justice. I'm curious, how are these events view in Norway today?

 

[negZero]

In the real world 2 wrongs sometimes do make a right

 

[Volum]

That depends. The execution of Quisling and the top leaders in the NS i think is viewed fairly possitive. People like police chief Jonas Lie wanted to contiune to fight in Norway because he knew that when the war was ended his days would be numbered. He was one of the most hated people in Quislings goverment, perhaps second only to Quisling himself. Jonas Lie most liekly drank himself to death on a farm after the war had ended and he and some friends had taken refuge there and where negoiating with the resistance about a surrender. One of the men there, Sværre Riisnæs had been chief of justice in Quislings gouverment and actually managed to fake himself so insane that the case against him had to be dropped and he got sent to a mental institute instead. After getting released from there he actually spent some time in a monestery in Sicily

However, i think something that people look back on with a certain shame is the treatment of soldiers who voluntered to fight on the eastern front, and especially front line nurses. After the war about 400-500 nurses who had served in the German Red Cross got convictions for working with the enemy. And while "poor working class men" had gotten sentenced for fighting on the eastern front, almost noboddy got sentenced for profitereing from the war. Those who made money from working with the Germans got away easily, and a large part of Norwegian industry colobaderated with the Germans making supplies for the German Army.

Also right after the war there was a large hatredt towards those who had worked for the Germans and the NS. Sentences giving right after the war where stricter then those given later, as people got more of a "distance" between it.

Today i guess it still is a tocuhy subject. Those who fought on the eastern front are viewed more mildly. 4898 of them got sentenced for "Treason towards the country" instead of their actions in the Germany army. They usually lost their voting rights for a period of years and where forbidden from working in gouverment positions.

Those who where nurses on the easter front have later been given a "formal apology" and today i dont think anyone has any kind of resentment toward them. Event those who fought as soldiers on the eastern front are viewed much more favorebly then those who worked with the Germans in Norway providing supplies,weapons,ratting out resistance members and such.

I'm sorry if this seems like along list of babble that makes no sense. We had a lecture about it not long ago but i don't have my notes here.

 

[Verbose]

Volum; what's the Norwegian view today of the "tyskerunger"-situation (children of German soldiers stationed in Norway and Norwegian women)?

 

[Verbose]

As I understand it, after the war and hungry for vengeance, Norway executed the Nazi-appointed leader, Quisling, along with 30something others guilty of war crimes or treason. In addition to this, thousands were imprisoned / fined for coloration.

"Had it coming" or not, the trials and punishments strike me more of vengeance than justice. I'm curious, how are these events view in Norway today?

This guy, Henry Rinnan, and his gang represent 40% of the people executed post-WWII in Norway; 83 murders ascribed to them, and about 1000 cases of torture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Rinnan

 

[Agent Cooper]

Well, I think the Norwegians and Danes (in a similar situation to Norway during WWII) in general viewed the nazi informants and collaborators with endless disgust and their lust for revenge was first and foremost targeted at them after the occupation ended. While a relativly small number of Norwegians and Danes chose to fight for Germany at the Russian front, at least they did not betray their own countrymen like the informants did.

Thousands of Danes deemed enemys of the Nazi leadership, were either executed or sent to the concentrationcamps during the occupation - often with the help from informants turning in their own.

Of course it it difficult today to pass some sort of moral judgement on those who initiated and carried out the executions of the Nazi collaborators. You really need to understand the context of the events and what a devastating war Europe had just witnessed. It is not without merit that the Nazi leadership today is regarded as one of the most sinister and ruthless regimes to ever have existed in recorded history.

 

[innonimatu]

Today i guess it still is a tocuhy subject. Those who fought on the eastern front are viewed more mildly. 4898 of them got sentenced for "Treason towards the country" instead of their actions in the Germany army. They usually lost their voting rights for a period of years and where forbidden from working in gouverment positions.

Those who where nurses on the easter front have later been given a "formal apology" and today i dont think anyone has any kind of resentment toward them. Event those who fought as soldiers on the eastern front are viewed much more favorebly then those who worked with the Germans in Norway providing supplies,weapons,ratting out resistance members and such.

That's really irrational, as anyone fighting for Germany, anywhere, was equally helping them. It took the german defeat on the eastern front to collapse the german army and end the Nazi regime! No german defeat there meant that Norway would never be liberated.

 

[Verbose]

That's really irrational, as anyone fighting for Germany, anywhere, was equally helping them. It took the german defeat on the eastern front to collapse the german army and end the Nazi regime! No german defeat there meant that Norway would never be liberated.

Except, God forbid, the liberation would be the kind the Soviets were offering...

 

[ArneHD]

Volum; what's the Norwegian view today of the "tyskerunger"-situation (children of German soldiers stationed in Norway and Norwegian women)?

The attitude now is mostly regret, a lot of the "tyskerungene" have received some compensation, and I believe that even some of their children have gotten some compensation from the state due to discrimination. They still have a higher degree of suicide and mental illness according to a show that I saw some time ago, however.

 

[Slaughter]

I think you guys went too soft on Quisling, he should've been tortured until his mind exploded from sheer pain and agony. If some dude betrayed my country to ruthless nazi, that would be one of the first things done as soon as the nazi got away.

 

[Leifmk]

Volum; what's the Norwegian view today of the "tyskerunger"-situation (children of German soldiers stationed in Norway and Norwegian women)?

Shame and regret; it's seen as one of the worst aspects of post-war history in this country.

 

[Volum]

That's really irrational, as anyone fighting for Germany, anywhere, was equally helping them. It took the german defeat on the eastern front to collapse the german army and end the Nazi regime! No german defeat there meant that Norway would never be liberated.

Thats true. Many spent time in Allied or Soviet captivity before returning to Norway being sent to prison again. The point it is that while those who fought on the eastern front got sent to prison and got shunned from society almos to this day noboddy ever thinks about places like Kongsberg that produced weapons and munitions for the German Army. In the big corporations it was almost impossible to find someone that was resbonsible and so they got away easily.

Volum; what's the Norwegian view today of the "tyskerunger"-situation (children of German soldiers stationed in Norway and Norwegian women)?

The attitude now is mostly regret, a lot of the "tyskerungene" have received some compensation, and I believe that even some of their children have gotten some compensation from the state due to discrimination. They still have a higher degree of suicide and mental illness according to a show that I saw some time ago, however.

Shame and regret; it's seen as one of the worst aspects of post-war history in this country.

Basically this. They have gotten a formal apology from the state, but the only ones who have gotten finacial compensation are the so called Lebensbornbabies. After the war their mothers got sentenced. Their kids lost most of their rights and usually their mothers where forced to give them away. They got sent to mental institutions or children homes (and back then they where no plesant place to be), lost their citisenship, and got no financial support from the state or their parrents.

Other "Tyskerunger" have lost their cases for compensation both in the Norwegian court system and in the European Human Rights court.

 

[Sharwood]

Except, God forbid, the liberation would be the kind the Soviets were offering...

Exactly. Fighting for Germany wasn't nice, but there were cases, such as in Estonia and Finland, where it was just a desperate attempt to maintain freedom from the Soviets, who were clearly winning the war. Now someone from Norway who volunteered to fight in the East in 1941 I wouldn't forgive, but 1944? That's a little tougher.

 

[Verbose]

Exactly. Fighting for Germany wasn't nice, but there were cases, such as in Estonia and Finland, where it was just a desperate attempt to maintain freedom from the Soviets, who were clearly winning the war. Now someone from Norway who volunteered to fight in the East in 1941 I wouldn't forgive, but 1944? That's a little tougher.

Norway had a land border with the Soviet Union all the time, even if it is above the Arctic Circle. Concerns about "Bolshevism" were pan-European.

 

[Sharwood]

Norway had a land border with the Soviet Union all the time, even if it is above the Arctic Circle. Concerns about "Bolshevism" were pan-European.

Actually Norway did not have a land border with the Soviet Union until the conclusion of the Continuation War, when the Petsamo area was detached from Finland. And just because people were concerned about Bolshevism across Europe does not excuse active collaboration with the Nazis to fight it when the Nazis showed every sign of being victorious.

 

[Verbose]

Actually Norway did not have a land border with the Soviet Union until the conclusion of the Continuation War, when the Petsamo area was detached from Finland.

Hm... My bad!

 

[plarq]

Hm... My bad!

Norway worrying Soviet occupation in 1944 is absurd--how could Soviet travel all the way on the frozen coast via land is beyond my imagination.

 

[Sharwood]

Norway worrying Soviet occupation in 1944 is absurd--how could Soviet travel all the way on the frozen coast via land is beyond my imagination.

I'm sure people thought worrying about Nazi occupation - considering Germany pretty much had no navy - was foolish too. Same in Crete. Stuff that shouldn't have worked for Germany did several times, why not Russia? Besides, they could always come through Sweden.

 

[plarq]

I'm sure people thought worrying about Nazi occupation - considering Germany pretty much had no navy - was foolish too. Same in Crete. Stuff that shouldn't have worked for Germany did several times, why not Russia? Besides, they could always come through Sweden.

Well, that way it opens WWIII in no time.

 

[Sharwood]

Well, that way it opens WWIII in no time.

It would be more like a continuation of the second. It was planned for though. I suggest you google Operation: Unthinkable. Churchill was prepared for Stalin to push into Western Europe, even if Roosevelt wasn't.