What is turning into the slide? (Car Traction)

Syterion

Voodoo Economist
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San Diego, CA
I keep seeing this phrase, and I'm never completely sure what it means. When you oversteer, and the rear wheels lose traction, you are supposed to turn into the slide. No one explains what this means. If you are turning right, and you oversteer, does this mean turn the wheels more to the right, or to the left?

EDIT: More reading makes me think turn to the left.
 
On a rear wheel drive car or truck, if the rear end starts to slide to the right, turn the wheels to the right. If left, then left. That can help you regain control of the vehicle.

I don't think it helps as much with Front Wheel Drive, but I'm not entirely sure. FWD will often straighten out by stepping on the gas.
 
I keep seeing this phrase, and I'm never completely sure what it means. When you oversteer, and the rear wheels lose traction, you are supposed to turn into the slide. No one explains what this means. If you are turning right, and you oversteer, does this mean turn the wheels more to the right, or to the left?

You turn the direction of your back end to attempt to straighten-out. If you continue to turn or turn in the opposite direction you may/will fishtail out of control.
 
you young whippersnappers have antilock brakes, traction control, and stability control though
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Syterion, you're right, "steer into the skid" is a terrible phrase that has no real meaning. It's much simpler: steer the way you want the car to go.

"Skid" is a ridiculous term, actually. As you have learned, there is oversteer, which is what is commonly referred to as a "skid" and also understeer.

The old saying goes: "oversteer is when the passenger is scared. Understeer is when the driver is scared!"

So, dealing first with the classic "oversteer" skid:

oversteer.jpg


You start to turn, and the rear wheels slide, causing the car to turn MORE than you wanted it to, hence "oversteer." Don't panic, just steer where you want to go. In fact a lot of instructors will tell you to LOOK where you want to go, not at what you don't want to hit. Steering where you want to go means reducing your steering input; in the above right turn example, yu would unwind the steering back towards the left. BUT, that does not mean you must necessarily turn the wheels to the left. ou just need to turn them less to the right, usually. It's a skill that definitely improves with practice.

Ignore whether you have front or rear wheel drive. Both can oversteer, and the techniques for dealing with it once it happens are the same. The saying is, FWD and RWD react the same to being driven well, but differently to being driven badly.

Steering is ony part of controlling your car. Throttle inputs are also important. If you start to oversteer, bring the throttle to a neutral position, neither full on nor full off, so that you are neither accelerating nor decelerating. For a RWD car that will usually mean decreasing throttle, as too much throttle on corner exit is a common way to induce oversteer in a RWD car. It's not cool or fast, and falls into the "being driven badly" category.

That said, a racing driver in a properly set up car will actually steer with the throttle, but that does NOT mean breaking the rears loose with gobs of power. Instead, a racing driver will use the throttle to shift the weight of the car forward and backward, onto the front or rear tires, to change the amount of grip each end of the car has. DO NOT try this except on a closed course, just know that it's possible. And it's the reason why you sholdn't juist lift your foot clean off the throttle when you start to slide: you will throw weight onto the fronts and off the rears and maybe make things worse.

my qualifications:
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Wanna know about understeer too?
 
Found the companion pic to the uncorrected oversteer shown above. This is what you have to do if it is really bad, but as always, just steer the way you want to go. Good illustration though...

countersteer.jpg
 
Yeah, that's good advice. I want to try to get into auto-racing, but it's an expensive sport. I am going to try to be the driver for my school's AXP team. You have to get a license to race cars, which involves taking a course on it. Hopefully I get to do it. I knew the basics of how to correct oversteer, but this helps.

I know this question sounded stupid, coming from someone who wants to race a car, but I do know a lot about car dynamics, but not necessarily a lot about driving well. Thanks for the good advice. Why do you think understeer is worse?
 
In the case of winter driving... buy an Subaru and get proper winter tires. If you still can't control your car, you shouldn't be driving in that weather. Or you shouldn't be driving.

But if you do find yourself in a slide, do what Dubai said. That was excellent advice. And if you want practice, find an empty, icy parking lot with few light polls. Hell you can even bring water and make it icy if you're so inclined. That was my introduction to winter driving.

edit: had I actually finished the thread I would have realized you're not talking about sliding due to ice at all. I'm just a pompous douche.
 
Syterion, we all start at the same place: knowing nothing. Racing can be expensive, but it doesn't have to be. Here's the place you can start:

New England Region
Sports Car Club of America


For the solo events, you can use your own car, with no modifications. It's perfectly safe, for you AND your car. All you need is a regular driver's license

Whatever car you drive, you will be put in a class(pdf) with other cars of the same speed, so you have a chance to win, based on skill.

Even if you aren't ready to start competing, SCCA is a volunteer organization, and you will learn more by helping out at events than anywhere else. Plus you will get lots of appreciation and respect (brownie points) from people you will see more of as you progress into racing.

I'll be back to bloviate about understeer later; now it's dinner time! Mmm, fried chicken!
 
*burp*

Understeer!
understeer.jpg


So you get to the corner, turn the wheel , and the car goes straight on. That can't be good.

Actually, all street cars are set up to understeer, because it is considered the safest condition for the inexperienced driver. You turn the wheel and the car turns less than you want it to, as the front end loses grip. So you turn the wheel more. What could be simpler?

The problem comes when the understeer gets so bad that you have the wheels turned all the way and the car STILL refuses to turn as much as you want it to. "Hello wall, my steering stopped working, nice to meet you."

That's a condition known as "terminal understeer," when the steering wheel just stops working. Is it any wonder that is why "understeer is when the driver is scared?"

The cure for understeer is equally simple and instinctive: lift off the throttle. This shifts weight on to the front, and provided the understeer isn't terminal, will give a bit more grip. The problem is that the untutored driver (almost everyone) doesn't just lift of the throttle, he also jams on the brakes, which is the worst possible thing he could do, even with ABS. "Hello wall, I put too much demand on the friction afforded by my front tires, nice to meet you."

Novice racers are notorious for setting up their cars to be "pointy," where the front never loses grip, and they use their mad skillz to stop their own rear wheels overtaking them. l337! And thus drifting was born!

Don't get me wrong, drifting is an impressive demonstration of skill, but it's not the fast way around a corner. Maybe the fast way around a corner is a good topic for another post. But only on the track, please.
 
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