What is your religion?

[MrPresident]

We are in a WORLDWIDE recession.

I may not know a lot about the bible but I do know economies. We are not in a worldwide recession. It is doubtful that even America was in a recession. The only country I can think of that was in a recession was Germany but there were countries in booms such as Ireland. A recession requires 2 quarters of negative growth and that wasn't achieved worldwide. So no worldwide recession.

Older kids are bombing their schools, shooting each other and their parents

I think you will find that is just America.

No, it was written for everyone.

But so wasn't the Torah, the Korah etc etc.

 

[FearlessLeader2]

In all honesty, this current recession (or whatever you want to call it) is only the bitter fore-taste of what is coming. If I were a broker, and I had clients, I'd advise them to put everything they had in canned food and shotguns, if I thought that would do them any good.

The day is coming when it will cost a denarius (week's salary) for a quart of wheat(day's worth of food for a family). In some places it already does.

 

[MrPresident]

In some places it already does

Where?

In all honesty, this current recession (or whatever you want to call it) is only the bitter fore-taste of what is coming.

How do you know? Can you predict the economic future of the world? because if you can then you are the only person in the world who can. Every economy has a business cycle. There are ups and there are downs but the trend is always upwards. Is this bitter fore-taste anything like the world depression of the 1930s because we recovered from that.

 

[sumociv]

FL2 challenged by knowledge of the bible, look at his and compare. We are talking about prophecies in Isaiah regarding the return of the land. He cliams thay they are unfulfilled.

"An interesting point of view, if hopelessly flawed. Israel did not return to the region, it remained under Roman rule. When the Roman empire divided, and eventually faltered, it still did not revert to Irsraeli rule. The Ottoman and finally the British Empire ruled the area until 1948. Only in 1948 did Israel return to the region, with rule by Jews of Jews, in a Jewish state. "

Hmmm. You just don't know what you are talking about.
Israel returned from the exile under ezra and nehemiah in a couple of waves 530-430 b.c.e. this is in the Bible.
They rebuilt the temple this is in the Bible.
They threw out the greek rulers and put a davidic king on the throne in the second half of the 2nd century b.c.e. and ruled their own land until 63 B.C.E. when the Romans under Pompeii conquered them. This is not in the Bible, so maybe you've never studied it.

Having demonstrated your lack of knowledge in what you claim to be an expert in, I needn't answer any of your other points. I was where you are in your approach to scripture before I went to school for 6 years to study the bible.

And yes, 2 degrees in theology do win over some personal, undirected bible study of yours over however many years you've been doing it. Q.E.D. by this lack of crucial knowledge on your part regarding the intertestimental period.

 

[FearlessLeader2]

I was under the impression that we were discussing the region's history AFTER the Roman conquest in the double-digit years, not the earlier period.

Obviously, a failure to communicate.

 

[sumociv]

but, do you agree that post exilic prophesies probably pertained to the return that was imminent when they were written instead of 1948?

 

[FearlessLeader2]

Actually, no. We still differ on that.

 

[sumociv]

So when Isaiah or Ezekiel prohesized that after the exile, a remnant would return to the land, they weren't refering to what would happen in the next 50-100 years, they were really talking about 1948? 85 generations of people later?

If this is what you believe, then please explain to me the following 2 questions.
1) Why did God or the author write this to people back then if it didn't apply to them?
2) Why would the the Jews read or preserve a book if was really meant for us 2600 years later to finally understand?

 

[IceBlaZe]

Judaism 5 3.62%

Lets thank Europe for that!
Thank you Europe!

 

[FearlessLeader2]

Originally posted by sumociv
So when Isaiah or Ezekiel prohesized that after the exile, a remnant would return to the land, they weren't refering to what would happen in the next 50-100 years, they were really talking about 1948? 85 generations of people later?

If this is what you believe, then please explain to me the following 2 questions.
1) Why did God or the author write this to people back then if it didn't apply to them?

To show that he had real power of prophecy. I can tell you that the US is going to be heavily involved in world affairs in the next decade, that doesn't make me a prophet. It just means I know my ass from a hole in the ground. If I could have told you that in 1045AD, that would make me a prophet.
Additionally, the Israel that God spoke of back then in those prophecies was not the Jews, who had turned their backs on Him and chosen to remain in Babylon instead of returning. God spoke of the nation of faith that would come from all peoples. He spoke of the kingdom that Jesus referred to as belonging to him, the kingdom that Jesus would rule for his father.

Originally posted by sumociv
2) Why would the the Jews read or preserve a book if was really meant for us 2600 years later to finally understand?

Because it was also meant for them. They too could and still can benefit from its teachings. Just because the Bible's prophecies are being fulfilled today doesn't mean that they couldn't be inspiring to those people who were alive when they were first made.
You never responded to my question about the statue with feet of clay, made of many materiels. Do you know what it represents? It is an allegory of the world's human governments, and represents their slowly diminishing strength. It's head was gold, and represented the imperial rulers of the ancient world. The chest was silver, and represented the kings of later times, whose reach was much smaller, and who answered to a few generals. The lower torso and thighs were of bronze, and represented the continual weakening of that strength, as the Roman emperors answered to a senate, the HRE answered to a Pope, and other world governments saw their power further and further diluted.
The shins of iron represented the Victorian governements: the few fledgling republics, and the parlimentary rule of England.
We are in the days of the feet of clay mixed with iron. Today the power rests in uncertain hands, and can pass from them quickly, in many cases it has to by law, such as in the US.

This is a 2000+ year old prophecy too. Was it just a lucky guess?

 

[Algernon Pondlife]

FL2,

do you have authority for that wonderful fantasy, sorry allegory? Does the bible tell you it is an allegory? There are so many layers of interpretation in your explanation, how do you know it has not been contaminated by human error?

Even if we were to accept the notion that it is an allegory about government, whether in one society or wider, any historian could map on a thousand eras and a thousand focal cultures to it. The only ways I can see to get to your conclusion is either to start with a dislike of the current state of the world and look backwards for comfort or .....

.... revelation. If someone claims that this has been revealed to them, how have you authenticated that person's status? How do you know he or she is not a charlatan? (I'm assuming you are not claiming to be the recipient af a divine revelation, but feel free to contradict me.

Arguing that these revelations are about today simply because you believe that your god needed (or wanted) to demonstrate his powers of prophesy is intellectually nonsense becuase the same argument has equal validity five hundred years ago and five hundred years hence. And of couse it does not demonstrate any power until the prophesy is fulfilled. And since the words of the prophesy need incredible contortions of interpretation to mean anything so far away, most people are not even going to notice when that happens (or perhaps most people missed it three hundred years ago?)

 

[CurtSibling]

Originally posted by Becka


Just a little side note (not being critical or anything), Satan really isn't a deity. He's a fallen angel.

He is also represtative of various hebrew and persian pagan
diety types hi-jacked and used by early christians to give
their 'good-guy' god a bad guy to go up against.

'Lucifer' for instance is merely a sun god from the middle east
mythology. But the name has been used and corrupted by
christians and satanists...

The fallen angel thing is just a story to increase moral pathos and
to warn the bible reader to avoid being to vain...

 

[sumociv]

FL2, thanks for your reply. But your view of prophecy is based on your assumption that the bible was meant for you? as demonstrated by this response:

You never responded to my question about the statue with feet of clay, made of many materiels. Do you know what it represents? It is an allegory of the world's human governments, and represents their slowly diminishing strength. It's head was gold, and represented the imperial rulers of the ancient world. The chest was silver, and represented the kings of later times, whose reach was much smaller, and who answered to a few generals. The lower torso and thighs were of bronze, and represented the continual weakening of that strength, as the Roman emperors answered to a senate, the HRE answered to a Pope, and other world governments saw their power further and further diluted.
The shins of iron represented the Victorian governements: the few fledgling republics, and the parlimentary rule of England.
We are in the days of the feet of clay mixed with iron. Today the power rests in uncertain hands, and can pass from them quickly, in many cases it has to by law, such as in the US.

This is a 2000+ year old prophecy too. Was it just a lucky guess?

Your interpretation may make sense to you, but it has no relation to the meaning of the text, and less than no relationship to the context of the book of daniel and shows that you have a baffling view of the history of the world.

From the book of Daniel it is pretty clear and widely accepted that:
The head of gold = babylon
The chest of silver= Media
The legs of bronze = Persia
The feet of iron = Greece

The whole point of the book of Daniel's prophecies is to identify Greece as the worst possible kingdom which will be replaced by God's restoration of David's kingdom. The book was written just before the maccabean revolt around 160 B.C.E. when the Jews did get a davidic descendent back on the throne.

This is a difficult book to read and understand without a knowledge of Jewish intertestimental history, so I don't blame you for never having associated this book with the maccabean revolt, and you are free to reject my interpretation of the text. But unfortunatly, you seem to fail to recognize the universal rejection on these posts to your methods in regards to interpreting prophecies in the bible. Your interpretation will change with every world event. I'm sure that 60 years ago you would have identified the beast as hitler or stalin! Proof that your method will always only make sense at the time that you formulate it.

 

[Caranamrta]

Are you Muslim? Finally!

Please answer me: what exactly the Kaba is?
I asked my only Muslim schoolmate who was a neophyte since a year, and she didn't know. I finished the school, and never met any Muslims whom i could ask.

 

[IceBlaZe]

the kaba is a rectangular structure (about 20 feet by 30 feet and about 50 feet high) which is built with a special holy stone as its corner stone. it is in the center of a large mosque in haij. the kaba serves as the center of the muslim world and all muslims pray towards it, wherever they may be in the world.

 

[Caranamrta]

Ahha.
I was curious of this holy stone in the Kaba's corner.
Why it is holy? What is this stone at all (what the Muslims believe about it)?
I cunfused the Kaba and the stone, because the Hungarian literature mentions the stone as Kaba-stone.

 

[Benjamin Miller]

Originally posted by Caranamrta
Ahha.
I was curious of this holy stone in the Kaba's corner.
Why it is holy? What is this stone at all (what the Muslims believe about it)?
I cunfused the Kaba and the stone, because the Hungarian literature mentions the stone as Kaba-stone.

As a convert to Islam (you probably wouldn't guess that by my name), I can tell you that the Black Stone inside the Ka'ba is probably a meteor that fell from the sky. A good page on it is here.

 

[CartesianFart]

Wath are your religion?



If you would like to read about different religions look here:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/var_rel.htm

I don't have any. And by the way, Athiesm is not a religion.