What IYO does IV do better than V?

You sure the problem is because one is not using the BETA "original release" version available in Steam.

Also, I should note that once you install the Steam version, you can basically delete all assets and replace them with non-Steam version assets.
 
Disclaimer :I've never played 5 myself, only watched a couple hours my father playing it when it came out, and more recently a friend and some yt videos.

WAR :
The absence of SoD was a big downer for me and one of the main reason I did not try it when it came out (an other being my father being relunctant letting me play it after treacherously beating him at 4).
Among other things, no SoD implies army are really limited in size. SoD has a lot of issues, but none which can't be solved. "the whole stack dies when defending" was a harsh, but functional mechanic in 2. Collateral damages, artillery flanking, air bombing and nukes sounds like very convoluted solution, but they are working surprisingly well in Civ 4 (esp. BtS). I'd say Civ 4 is an example of perfectly successful SoD (as opposed to Civ 3 whose combat mechanics are not bad at all, but favors tech and production over tactic and experience much more) combat. Last but not least, Civ 4 AI has a decent grasp of the mechanics.

During the last years, I've came to appreciate no stacking mechanism, and Civ5 combat looks decently well implemented, but from what I've heard and read, the AI is utterly incompetent, in that area at least. If I had to guess, I would say a competent AIs are much easier to code for SoD mechanisms.

If I want something that's not SoD, I think a hybrid system like in Civ Call to Power would suit me best (C2P is close to the SoD side with a limit of 12, and most battle being decisive, but something closer to the carpet side with civ 5/6 mechanisms and being allowed to stack up to 4 while making the stack more vulnerable to range could be intereseting).

Economy :
Civ 4 wins hands down.

Civ 4 brings a lot of unnecessary yet interesting new features compared to its predecessors, and they are not broken (gpp, civcs, religion).

It manages to give a lot of power to small countries through constant boosts like bureaucracy, gpp, shrines...
While still supporting linear growth, where more land = more power (even more so than in 3 because maintenance vs corruption).

In civ 3, you had one ideal size (two or three cores centered around palace/FP and Kremelin) and you had no interest in aiming below, and aiming above was mostly, if not solely, to destroy others. In civ 4 almost any size can be aimed at with the right strategy supporting it, from OCC to global domination (a not too fast global domination approach will usually beat any other approach, but it is not always available, and all approaches feel optimized).

Civ 5 looks really bad on that aspect, with a lot things made from linear to constant. The main example is happiness, which is global (so as far as happiness is concerned, you can only support a constant pop, as opposed to a pop growing linearly with your number of cities). So it looks like it brings back a single ideal size. Slowly growing, but even more limiting than the despised corruption/waste mechanism.

To that regard, civ 4 really feels like a competitive 4X game, while civ 5 looks like a family board game with rules designed so that little Timmy can play along his big brothers with incentive for the later to avoid just grabing the riches of the former right away.

Religion :

Civ 5 wins, though it's a completely uninformed choice.

Civ 4 religion are decent, but I love the idea of generic customized religions.
Among other things, the number of noteworthy religion per game is more realistic and probably better gameplay wise in civ 5 than civ 4 :

  • duel map : civ 4, 7 religions, civ 5 1-2 religions
  • standard 8 player maps : civ 4 7 religions, civ 5 3-5 religions
  • Huge 18 players map : civ 4 7 religions, civ 5 7-12 religions
IMO nothing more needs to be said.

Barb :
Civ 4 wins
Barb mechanics seem really interesting in civ 5, but don't seem to matter much. Barb towns and barb teching up to riflemen at least is a more generic approach but not necessarilly a bad one. And barb are more relevant in civ 4.

City State :
Tie?
Again, a unique mechanism which fits more Timmy family board game than a 4X. It can be refreshing and amusing, I can see it being annoying as well.

Again, civ 4 approach is more generic and not necessarily worse, with mechanisms like bureaucraty and tech trading allowing small factions to thrive through the ages (and you can even play as one!).
 
Last edited:
Idk, I guess some things are lucky because civ 5 deity was a bit easier than civ 4 deity, imho. I was playing into domination once on civ 5 and I can't explain what I felt but I was actually conquering. I had this feeling that I'm doing the best I have done in life and I didn't want to continue to play civ 5 on that save because by then the AI would've made a come back against me. I feared AI's comeback so bad that I would leave the saved file and not open it. I felt like saving the file every time I did a good move and not continue with the save while doing a bad move and restarting the saved file until a good outcome (i.e captured another capital, got the necessary upgrade, etc.) where I would save the file and continue it. However, I lost the file where I was doing my best at Deity or got lucky because the computer had a virus. I wanted to continue but if Im able to find another weakness in the Deity AI I'll try to share.
Civ 4 Deity on the other hand, I haven't been able to get that luck or my best I've ever done, but bts AI really is unstoppable to me.
 
Idk, I guess some things are lucky because civ 5 deity was a bit easier than civ 4 deity, imho. I was playing into domination once on civ 5 and I can't explain what I felt but I was actually conquering. I had this feeling that I'm doing the best I have done in life and I didn't want to continue to play civ 5 on that save because by then the AI would've made a come back against me. I feared AI's comeback so bad that I would leave the saved file and not open it. I felt like saving the file every time I did a good move and not continue with the save while doing a bad move and restarting the saved file until a good outcome (i.e captured another capital, got the necessary upgrade, etc.) where I would save the file and continue it. However, I lost the file where I was doing my best at Deity or got lucky because the computer had a virus. I wanted to continue but if Im able to find another weakness in the Deity AI I'll try to share.
Civ 4 Deity on the other hand, I haven't been able to get that luck or my best I've ever done, but bts AI really is unstoppable to me.

2 words: lib cuirs :)
 
The 2/3.5/4 GB memory limit is in virtual memory. Each application exist in a virtual memory space where it can read/write/allocate memory. The virtual memory manager in Windows is then responsible for placing the contents of virtual memory in physical memory. It will do so in the hardware RAM modules if possible. If not, it will find some memory and copy it to the HD to make space in the hardware RAM. The application itself will only access the virtual memory, hence virtual memory addresses. It will not know if the data is in RAM or the HD.

Ok, if I got this right... When Civ 4 exceeds its 3.5 GB hard limit, the virtual memory manager in Windows stores the excess data outside the virtual memory space seen by the Civ 4 application, and this new location is also in physical RAM, but invisible for the Civ 4 executable.

When the data never actually leaves the physical RAM, why does it matter that 32-bit applications have the 3.5 GB limit in their virtual address space? I assume there is some overhead when the virtual memory manager reads and writes to the virtual address space, but how significant is it? If we compare the performance of a memory-bottle-necked 32-bit app on a system with 4 GB physical RAM vs a system with 32 GB physical RAM, is there a great difference?
 
Run without Steam.

Haha, exactly the first thing I thought.

I've been totally ignorant of PC gaming since the steam era. And I only buy hard copies of games. The only PC game I bought after Civ4 was Civ5. When I did, was so annoyed that I had to install steam to play it.
 
I've been totally ignorant of PC gaming since the steam era. And I only buy hard copies of games. The only PC game I bought after Civ4 was Civ5. When I did, was so annoyed that I had to install steam to play it.
I was "box only" too until I bought X-com. It came on two DVDs. My computer spent 6 hours (I think. It was something like that) installing the game due to slow seek speed on optical drives. Once it was done, I needed to create a steam account to start the game and then type in the steam key. Once done, steam told me it was outdated and decided to download... get this: not an update, but a brand new game. It downloaded 12 GB and installed that before I was able to start the game. I was like "if it's like that anyway, why did I have to waste time on the discs?".

While I still prefer physical discs with no account requires, buying what is essentially just a steam key is pointless. The main problem is that game boxes are now just a steam key or a key to a steam competitor. The idea of a box with an offline installer seems to be dead. In fact ironically the box is now more restrictive than downloading from GOG.
 
Last edited:
I was "box only" too until I bought X-com. It came up two DVDs. My computer spent 6 hours (I think. It was something like that) installing the game due to slow seek speed on optical drives. Once it was done, I needed to create a steam account to start the game and then type in the steam key. Once done, steam told me it was outdated and decided to download... get this: not an update, but a brand new game. It downloaded 12 GB and installed that before I was able to start the game. I was like "if it's like that anyway, why did I have to waste time on the discs?".

When I first tried to "install" Civ5, I didn't realize it at the time, but it started downloading the game also, when I left it thinking it was installing. I wondered why it took so long. When I realized it was downloading, I felt like using the disk as a frisbee out of the window of my flat.
 
GOG for the win.
 
I used to like Civ4 but there is one thing that kind of kills any sence of reality. Citywalls are totally misunderstood and underrated, and it is just too stupid to see how the warriors will leave the secure (irl) citywalls and meet the enemies out on open ground. Oboy :o

When playing Civ5 I simply have to do two modifications; set the unit pr. plot to say 7 and increase the strenght of walls & castles to a level where siegeweapons are neccesay to break them. And then give all kind of guns ranged attack off course. But still, the embark-option kills this version. What a stupid way to solve seafaring.
 
I used to like Civ4 but there is one thing that kind of kills any sence of reality. Citywalls are totally misunderstood and underrated, and it is just too stupid to see how the warriors will leave the secure (irl) citywalls and meet the enemies out on open ground. Oboy :o
I have yet (in 5000+ hours of play) to have the AI forces leave their comfy city and come out and get me when romping around in their territory. Even when I am pillaging, they stay put and hide behind their cultural bonus. I don't know, maybe we are playing with different mods. It's just never happened to me.
 
They get tasks like city_defense or AI_attack_unit (something like that ;)), so especially early when they are still unorganized and in settling mode you can see some leaving the cities. But also later, those without city_defense might leave yup.
It's one advantage of mounted stacks, if you fork attack (treatening 2 or even more cities), they can get confused and shuffle around.
 
I've definitely had one instance where I parked a stack of Cossacks outside of...I think one of Alex's cities? Well, some AI's city, not in a way where I was flanking him, and instead of huddling behind his culture he tossed his units right into my face. Admittedly he had some Knights and Elephants and the like, so they wouldn't necessarily benefit from cultural defence anyway, but that's still a situation I don't think I ever encountered before or since.
 
I have yet (in 5000+ hours of play) to have the AI forces leave their comfy city and come out and get me when romping around in their territory. Even when I am pillaging, they stay put and hide behind their cultural bonus. I don't know, maybe we are playing with different mods. It's just never happened to me.
The aggressive AI game option influence a bunch of stuff. Most of it is obvious like more likely to declare war and building more troops, but there are other effects, which are less eye catching like how to control the units during war. Aggressive AIs have more strategies to pick from and as such have different ideas of how many troops should be in cities and which units to attack.

The aggressive AI game option will change the AI way more than difficulty level. In fact part of the civ genre difficulty level (since civ1) tend to use the same AI, but use different modifiers for stuff. Increasing the difficulty level can make say the food needed for city growth go from 150% to 120% and then the human player will encounter an AI with bigger cities. The same with production cost and a bunch of other modifiers.
 
I've definitely had one instance where I parked a stack of Cossacks outside of...I think one of Alex's cities? Well, some AI's city, not in a way where I was flanking him, and instead of huddling behind his culture he tossed his units right into my face. Admittedly he had some Knights and Elephants and the like, so they wouldn't necessarily benefit from cultural defence anyway, but that's still a situation I don't think I ever encountered before or since.

Alex has high unit courage like a few of the warmongers (Napoleon is a great example), so he's fairly likely to throw units in your face. And take as many potshots with kamikaze pikes or grenadiers as possible, knowing they'll just be picked off even if they win.
 
The aggressive AI game option influence a bunch of stuff. Most of it is obvious like more likely to declare war and building more troops, but there are other effects, which are less eye catching like how to control the units during war. Aggressive AIs have more strategies to pick from and as such have different ideas of how many troops should be in cities and which units to attack.

The aggressive AI game option will change the AI way more than difficulty level. In fact part of the civ genre difficulty level (since civ1) tend to use the same AI, but use different modifiers for stuff. Increasing the difficulty level can make say the food needed for city growth go from 150% to 120% and then the human player will encounter an AI with bigger cities. The same with production cost and a bunch of other modifiers.
Maybe that's why I never see it. I don't play with aggressive AI.
 
The aggressive AI game option influence a bunch of stuff
I've heard that it doesn't make game much harder.

"Raging barbarians" helps me with making opening more sophisticated / defensive. Same early AI rushes with K-mod.

I'd like to try "Aggressive AI" too ))
 
Aggressive AI allows you to pull highly profitable stunts that are otherwise just not possible/feasible (such as worker stealing from a Deity AI, since Aggressive AI will agree to a cease fire much more readily), not sure if it's easier "casually".

Honestly I should try it myself one day, but I tend to get plotted on once or twice every game and tend to start next to Shaka/Monty/either Khan every four games or so anyway, so...I'm not really hurting for AIs being aggressive, normally :lol:.
 
Back
Top Bottom