Fish Man
Emperor
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2010
- Messages
- 1,545
Road maintenance is the dumbest thing I've ever seen in this whole franchise.
And that's saying a lot.
Now that’s a bit too far. What about AP?
Road maintenance is the dumbest thing I've ever seen in this whole franchise.
And that's saying a lot.
Now that’s a bit too far. What about AP?
That's badly designed, but the issues with it are more of a matter of oversights in execution rather than it being fundamentally a bad idea. It's really only an issue in the case of deliberate exploiting or sometimes bad luck.
I include execution as part of the design. And in this case, autolosing 1%-2% of your games by 1300AD without any reasonable way to have prevented it is certainly worse than a lot of things.
Which bug are you talking about. I can think of 3 issues, none of them game breaking.Larger maps. IV has a memory overflow bug that gets in the way.
3 can be annoying, but it's not really a civ 4 issue, more like a 32 bit application issue. The thing is back in the 80s we had 8 bit CPUs with 16 bit address space. This allowed 64 kB of memory. Motorola released their 68000 CPU (often called 68k), which had 24 bit address space and 32 bit registers. It actually had 32 bit addresses internally, but the chip didn't have enough pins for that. This grew into 32 bit CPUs, with 32 bit addresses, each address accessing 32 bit data. Fast forward and 2 GB for an application and 4 GB for the entire system was no longer enough. The solution to this is the 64 bit CPU, complete with 64 bit address space. Once again we have a new system, which seems like it has unlimited capacity for addressing memory.
The problem is that Civ IV is from before the 64 bit CPUs and is compiled for 32 bit only. This mean even if we go crazy and give our system 128 GB of memory (that's not even close to the max of a 64 bit CPU), the civ IV exe will put the CPU in 32 bit mode, which results in the 32 bit RAM limitations. Windows for some reason only allowed 3.5 GB of memory. To prevent the entire system from crashing due to out of memory, an application in 32 bit windows is limited to 2 GB. It's not a civ IV specific problem. It's a problem for all applications compiled in 32 bit mode. Another well known 32 bit game is Civ V, meaning it has the same limitations.
You can use some advanced tricks to increase the 2 GB limits, but it's still restricted by the 4 GB total and it has to have the windows API within that limit, meaning you can get a 32 bit application to use a theoretical max of 3-3.5 GB. I would however say if a mod hits the 2 GB limit, maybe the mod should try to reduce memory usage. Even if more memory is possible, it will slow down the game due to constant memory I/O bottlenecks, which will be there with that amount of memory.
This doesn't sound right to me. The game can have a slow startup time when modded (a RAM disk might help here), but once loaded it has everything in RAM except wonder movies and similar rarely used GUI/audio stuff.You can relieve the memory issue by loading the entire game to a RAM disk. This permits me to play through the late game on 20 000 tile maps with 34 civs and ~30 sec turn loads.
RAM clock frequency doesn't really help as frequency determines how many GB the CPU can read each second. Throughput isn't a bottleneck for the civ4 engine. Like most other turn based games, it's actually memory latency. The game figures out that it needs something from the memory, requests it and then the CPU is idle until the data arrives. This means you really want low latency (ping) between CPU and RAM. Civ4 does a really bad job at keeping memory organized for fast memory access. Sadly low latency memory is a rather complex issue.The only things I care about when buying a new computer is single thread CPU performance and RAM clock frequency.
This doesn't sound right to me. The game can have a slow startup time when modded (a RAM disk might help here), but once loaded it has everything in RAM except wonder movies and similar rarely used GUI/audio stuff.
The 2/3.5/4 GB memory limit is in virtual memory. Each application exist in a virtual memory space where it can read/write/allocate memory. The virtual memory manager in Windows is then responsible for placing the contents of virtual memory in physical memory. It will do so in the hardware RAM modules if possible. If not, it will find some memory and copy it to the HD to make space in the hardware RAM. The application itself will only access the virtual memory, hence virtual memory addresses. It will not know if the data is in RAM or the HD.Wouldn't disk read/write be the bottleneck as soon as the artificial 3.5 GB RAM limit is blown?
This doesn't sound right to me. The game can have a slow startup time when modded (a RAM disk might help here), but once loaded it has everything in RAM except wonder movies and similar rarely used GUI/audio stuff.
except wonder movies and similar rarely used GUI/audio stuff.
I think leaders falls into "rarely used GUI stuff", but yeah we can be more specific about it. The background for the loading screen is also read from the disk each time it's used.Leader art too. It's loaded on demand from disk, not into memory at launch. That's why modded leaders should never be packed it into an FPK.
Was fun reading your rant,
games like VI would have been impossible back then (no quality control, but still selling lots and getting shady reviews).
Now in times of constant blabla and advertising on the net, even such money grabs sell really well.
When i look at VI forums, it's really more like a social media chatting project..boring.