What should I do with TOE when I have no rivers

[gunkulator]

In my current game I have the misfortune of not having a single river on my whole island. Neighboring islands also have no rivers. I should still be able to beat the AI to TOE since they prioritize crap like Nationalism, Fascism and The Corporation over the lower tech path.

It is the early Industrial and I'm not sure what to do about TOE. Yes, I know I want to build it but I'm not sure what techs to take for free. Right now I have Electricity, Industrialization, Medicine and Communism while the advanced AIs have The Corporation, Medicine, Communism and Fascism. I recently traded Medicine for Nationalism and Communism.

If I use TOE for the usual Atomic Theory and Electronics, I really gain no benefit since I can't build Hoover Dam. OTOH those are the most advanced techs available to me and I could get the AI to pay mucho cash for them. But then again an AI could simply use Electronics to build HD and there's nothing I could do about it. And once more there's the thought that the AIs tend to build coal plants anyway so maybe it would do them little good.

I could instead go for Replaceable Parts and The Corporation however many AIs already have The Corporation so maybe I could just trade for it. I'm really tempted to be the first kid on my block to get Replaceable Parts however old TOE habits die hard.

Game is Emporer, archipelago, 70% water. I am currently in a long war with the tech leader, the Maya, who fortunately also have no rivers. They have most of the Wonders in the game. I've been razing their cities, wonders and all, since I can't hold them and they'd probably flip anyway. I forced them out of Democracy via WW and they picked Fascism - always the beginning of the end for an AI. I can't defeat them utterly because they are spread over too many islands and I'm already up to 30% luxs for WW myself - soon to be 40%. They've been trading techs away like crazy and will probably continue to do so.

I'm at work so I can't post a save (sorry).

 

[thetrooper]

I'll never choose techs the AI have already. Without rivers or lakes the dam is of no use for you. But imagine what that wonder would do for the AI that gets it... Difficult situation tho!

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

It's allways useful to get 2 free techs, especialy the non mandatory ones.
However you can consider changing the second one. AT is for sure, as it's expensive, Electronics not so much so if you cant boost immediatly your production with Hoover you can afford researching it later. Try another tech tree for a better/more expensive tech.

 

[tR1cKy]

Replaceable Parts, for sure. Artillery will help a lot in the war. As a second tech, i'd go for something that the AS usually overlook, to use it for a good bargain, such as Atomic Theory.

 

[Turner]

I'd still get Atomic Theory and Electronics with it, and sell to the AI. Why? Because even if the AI gets HD, you are going to get a lot of cash for those two techs, and you can use that tech to help cripple the AI, taking cash from them. This will mean a lower amount of AI troops, which in turn means an easier time of taking the wonder. Plus, the AI is going to take a long time to get the HD, and that will give you even more time to build up that force and rush to take that city.

Never pass up an opportunity to cripple the AI. Cripple them enough, and you'll be running over them with tanks while they have riflemen. The AIs downside is it always goes for Nationalism first (unless there's a scientific civ in the mix, and they sell it to everyone) and this is a weakness that is easily exploitable. Just keep selling techs to the AI for gpt, and they won't have the income to maintain a newer modern army. Yes, they may have a lot of units, but they will be older weaker units as well.

 

[tR1cKy]

Good advice Turner, unless the AS decide to declare on you when you're still in the gpt treaty for 19 turns...

 

[Turner]

Right, there's that chance. However, they would still have been giving GPT for quite a while, and so they shouldn't have as nice an army as if they weren't giving it to you. One hopes, at least.

 

[tR1cKy]

I wonder what happens when an AS goes so broke that it cannot pay the agreed gpt, even with selling stuff or disbanding military. Do you get your gpt money anyway, or you get less, or none? And the treaty? Does it break or stay active, regardless of the money?

 

[Rambuchan]

I can't better the above advice but it is interesting and ironic how you can get up a creek without a paddle because there are no rivers about!

 

[thetrooper]

I can't better the above advice but it is interesting and ironic how you can get up a creek without a paddle because there are no rivers about!

What do you mean?

 

[Rambuchan]

Being "up **** creek without a paddle" is a familiar saying for being in a difficult situation (where I live), as our dear poster clearly is here. So it's a bit ironic that he's in that difficult situation because there are no rivers (or creeks) about. Oh nevermind.

 

[thetrooper]

Yeah - I see now I'm just a stupid Norwegian... Hopefully I learn something new every day.

 

[Turner]

I wonder what happens when an AS goes so broke that it cannot pay the agreed gpt, even with selling stuff or disbanding military. Do you get your gpt money anyway, or you get less, or none? And the treaty? Does it break or stay active, regardless of the money?

Dunno...but you should be able to set that up in a scenario, no? I don't know enough about the editor to know if it could be done, but I don't see why not.

 

[BlackBetsy]

Here's the more important question? How much is your tech lead? I typically have a big tech lead by ToE, so I will delay ToE as much as I can (Scientific Method gets you a TON of money from the AI's....I love to sell it to them for high GPT the turn before ToE gets built) to (1) make sure I get a tech the turn before ToE (e.g., 1 turn to tech X, 2 turns to ToE); and (2) see if I can get Motorized Transportation from the ToE. If you've got MoTran and the AIs don't have replaceable parts (Infantry), the end game gets a lot shorter

 

[Tomoyo]

I wonder what happens when an AS goes so broke that it cannot pay the agreed gpt, even with selling stuff or disbanding military. Do you get your gpt money anyway, or you get less, or none? And the treaty? Does it break or stay active, regardless of the money?

The same thing happens as if you were losing more money than you have. They lose one improvement and one unit per turn.

 

[Turner]

Do they still pony up the dough, tho?

 

[gunkulator]

I wonder what happens when an AS goes so broke that it cannot pay the agreed gpt, even with selling stuff or disbanding military. Do you get your gpt money anyway, or you get less, or none? And the treaty? Does it break or stay active, regardless of the money?

Actually, I know the answer to this one: they declare war. It doesn't matter if they were gracious before, if they can't pay, they go to war which automatically cancels all deals. I've tried propping up dying civs by trading tech for gpt and was surprised when their war losses from another AI were so bad that the only logical thing for them to do was to declare war on me!

On the topic, it sounds like Atomic Theory and Replaceable Parts seems like the best way to go. That way I can trade Atomic Theory for The Corporation with a poor AI and then trade it again for a bunch of cash from the others.

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

I think that if they are broke they dont always declare.
In a game going actually Mongols are reduced to 1CC on an island and still pay me 148 gpt... And they do pay, the full amount.
It varies from game to game concerning the techs to choose. AT is a must IMO but the other one may vary.