Stuka
Blitzkreigfuhrer
I make a dozen of 'em, and they can't bombard or ANYTHING!!! What gives? What are they FOR??? Recon???
What the hell are Helicopters FOR???
- Thread starter Stuka
- Start date
cracker
Gil Favor's Sidekick
As released by Firaxis, they are almost totally worthless.
They are designed to carry a ground unit forward to any square (even a mountain or forest) and deposit the units carried in the Helicopter.
The problem with total worthlessness stems from their status as an immobile unit that must be based only in a friendly city. By the time you research flight and advanced flight, your civ should be fairly advanced and culturally strong which creates a cultural corona around your cities that as at least 3 squares deep. To reach the fourth square (or first square outside your territory and road network) Helicopters need a range of 4. With a range of 6, the helicopters can barely reach to a square next to the first enemy city. Helicopters cannot carry artillery, settlers, or workers and can basically only carry one of the foot soldier type units.
Combine this with the fact that paratroops can be built with the same technology as Helicopters and can launch themselves the same distance if the city of origin has an airport and you end up with a worthless unit in the cost benefit categories.
Hopefully someone at Firaxis will catch on to this in the next series of patches.
They are designed to carry a ground unit forward to any square (even a mountain or forest) and deposit the units carried in the Helicopter.
The problem with total worthlessness stems from their status as an immobile unit that must be based only in a friendly city. By the time you research flight and advanced flight, your civ should be fairly advanced and culturally strong which creates a cultural corona around your cities that as at least 3 squares deep. To reach the fourth square (or first square outside your territory and road network) Helicopters need a range of 4. With a range of 6, the helicopters can barely reach to a square next to the first enemy city. Helicopters cannot carry artillery, settlers, or workers and can basically only carry one of the foot soldier type units.
Combine this with the fact that paratroops can be built with the same technology as Helicopters and can launch themselves the same distance if the city of origin has an airport and you end up with a worthless unit in the cost benefit categories.
Hopefully someone at Firaxis will catch on to this in the next series of patches.
Stuka
Blitzkreigfuhrer
Or at least make an attack chopper! As it stands, there's no more a worthless unit than the chopper. <shakes head> This is absolutely nuts! I don't mean to make such a big stink about something like this, but it's like watching a beautiful work of art with two great big pieces of fluorescent gum stuck to the corners.
(I'm referring to the inability to set the starting points of civs as well as the existence of some utterly worthless units.)
Oh well...
Hope Firaxis is reading these.
<crosses fingers>
(I'm referring to the inability to set the starting points of civs as well as the existence of some utterly worthless units.)
Oh well...
Hope Firaxis is reading these.
<crosses fingers>
LaRo
Dead Rat
Helicopter should be able to attack and/or bombard units as tanks.
Are not Cobra anti-tank helicopters?
Are not Cobra anti-tank helicopters?
Craterus22
King
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- Oct 7, 2001
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- 700
Or replace the helicopter with B-52 bomber(an advanced bomber to say the least)
Zouave
Crusader
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ROFLOLFunniest thing I've read all week.
Write them yourself: http://www.firaxis.com/contact_gamefeedback.cfm
EDIT helicopters into a useful unit of your choosing.
Dark Sheer
Deity
There are some difference between Helicopter and Paratroopers. Paratroopers airdrop then end their movements. Units drop by the helicopter does not end their movement and can still move the same turn.
So the helicopter is useful for moving large amount of troops across some land without roads on the frontline. I have seen AI using helicopter to drop units behind my line of defense (of course if you extend the range it will be even more interesting and useful
)
So the helicopter is useful for moving large amount of troops across some land without roads on the frontline. I have seen AI using helicopter to drop units behind my line of defense (of course if you extend the range it will be even more interesting and useful
)Richard III
Duke of Gloucester
Helicopters are included to tease the mod community. It's a form of foreplay, really.
R.III
R.III
DrJambo
Crash-test dummy
here's an idea for you....
why not try helicopters with an infinite range (i.e. set them with the infinite range ability in the editor).
then watch as they can drop their carried footsoldier anywhere on the map. That should make them useful.
or, list more unit types with the foot unit ability, for example, artillery, tanks, mech infantry, workers, settlers.
or increaSe their carrying capacity from 1 to 2 or 3?
there is hope for the helicopter yet.
why not try helicopters with an infinite range (i.e. set them with the infinite range ability in the editor).
then watch as they can drop their carried footsoldier anywhere on the map. That should make them useful.
or, list more unit types with the foot unit ability, for example, artillery, tanks, mech infantry, workers, settlers.
or increaSe their carrying capacity from 1 to 2 or 3?
there is hope for the helicopter yet.
Dralix
Killer of threads
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2001
- Messages
- 2,407
Helicopters can also drop a footsoldier in any friendly city, anywhere on the map, and that unit can still move. Just load the unit on the helicopter, rebase it, then unload the unit. This can be useful to move infantry to defend cities an another continent before you can build an airport.
cracker
Gil Favor's Sidekick
For Dark Shear and others:
Using the Early Airpower Test map, I have tested Helicopters. Just getting to where I can say that testing is somewhat extensive.
As shipped from Firaxis they are totally worthless in almost every envisioned scenario.
I have also confirmed that when units get airdropped by the Helicopter, units cannot continue their movement sequence once they are on the ground whether they are in friendly, neutral, or enemy territory. SO when you use a helicopter to move units forward into an attack position they are frozen/sitting ducks for a turn. This is not the same as when the helicopter rebases to a new city and unloads a unit that can run out of the city.
Helicoptors can drop units forward and leave the units in a position, but with range limited to 6 tiles that rarely reaches more than one square beyond where the foot units could reach too when travelling by foot.
When landing the troops in jungle, forest, or mountains there is a firaxis built in hidden torment factor that may pop up and say "Airdrop Failed" and the units will evaporate. While this may be somewhat technically valid, the constrains of CIV3 game play mean that you have to try to land troops on defensive bonus terrain, especially when the designers have built in the incapacitated "no movement on landing" problem. If this wasn't built in, you would land in the field and quickly run for cover in the forest or on the mountain.
The immobile restriction to cities factor is also a severe incapacitating limitation. You can land troops on a nearby enemy island or adjacent continent, but without a city in the enemy territory the troops can never return. Helicopter need an "extract" mode as well as "insert" mode.
Using the Early Airpower Test map, I have tested Helicopters. Just getting to where I can say that testing is somewhat extensive.
As shipped from Firaxis they are totally worthless in almost every envisioned scenario.
I have also confirmed that when units get airdropped by the Helicopter, units cannot continue their movement sequence once they are on the ground whether they are in friendly, neutral, or enemy territory. SO when you use a helicopter to move units forward into an attack position they are frozen/sitting ducks for a turn. This is not the same as when the helicopter rebases to a new city and unloads a unit that can run out of the city.
Helicoptors can drop units forward and leave the units in a position, but with range limited to 6 tiles that rarely reaches more than one square beyond where the foot units could reach too when travelling by foot.
When landing the troops in jungle, forest, or mountains there is a firaxis built in hidden torment factor that may pop up and say "Airdrop Failed" and the units will evaporate. While this may be somewhat technically valid, the constrains of CIV3 game play mean that you have to try to land troops on defensive bonus terrain, especially when the designers have built in the incapacitated "no movement on landing" problem. If this wasn't built in, you would land in the field and quickly run for cover in the forest or on the mountain.
The immobile restriction to cities factor is also a severe incapacitating limitation. You can land troops on a nearby enemy island or adjacent continent, but without a city in the enemy territory the troops can never return. Helicopter need an "extract" mode as well as "insert" mode.
Stuka
Blitzkreigfuhrer
It's cool that you can edit the daylights out of 'em. I gave my artillery more range, but does anyone know how to give it actual KILL power?
I have used helos with astounding success in a recent game with a war against the romans, then later the french:
Romans had northern plains and desert, suitable for armor exploitation. But their southern region was a moutain range. In order to attack it, I used helos to ferry marines and infantry to the outskirts of the city, then attack. I never saw the "Air drop failed" thing (but that was version 1.17, don't know about 1.21, if so then they have reverted to near worthlessness). The only editor mod I made that is realivent here is I gave infantry an attack capability (A & D are roughly equal). If the romans had rubber, I would have been in for a tough fight, but against just riflemen it was a cake walk.
Later, I regrouped my helos and loaded an infantry unit on to each. When then when I launched my operation against the French (destroy a major power in 1 turn) I used these airmobile infantry and marines to take 2 major cities.
They have their uses, but I agree with a few complaints:
units should have a MP once hitting the ground, at least if they land on plains, desert, grassland, etc. This should also be true of of airborne units.
Helos should not have an issue landing troops in rough terrain, as proven in Vietnam, their will be clearings enough to land several troops in even thick jungle, hills or moutains. Heck - just use a daisy cutter in a jungle, instant LZ
Helos need to be able to recover infantry. Right now, they are a one way ticket. They need to be two way.
Helos need to be able to base in different territory:
helos with troops should be able to base on carriers (or assault ships), or ground, at least just include friendly territory, but they should also be able to set up operations even in enemy territory.
Romans had northern plains and desert, suitable for armor exploitation. But their southern region was a moutain range. In order to attack it, I used helos to ferry marines and infantry to the outskirts of the city, then attack. I never saw the "Air drop failed" thing (but that was version 1.17, don't know about 1.21, if so then they have reverted to near worthlessness). The only editor mod I made that is realivent here is I gave infantry an attack capability (A & D are roughly equal). If the romans had rubber
, I would have been in for a tough fight, but against just riflemen it was a cake walk.Later, I regrouped my helos and loaded an infantry unit on to each. When then when I launched my operation against the French (destroy a major power in 1 turn) I used these airmobile infantry and marines to take 2 major cities.
They have their uses, but I agree with a few complaints:
units should have a MP once hitting the ground, at least if they land on plains, desert, grassland, etc. This should also be true of of airborne units.
Helos should not have an issue landing troops in rough terrain, as proven in Vietnam, their will be clearings enough to land several troops in even thick jungle, hills or moutains. Heck - just use a daisy cutter in a jungle, instant LZ
Helos need to be able to recover infantry. Right now, they are a one way ticket. They need to be two way.
Helos need to be able to base in different territory:
helos with troops should be able to base on carriers (or assault ships), or ground, at least just include friendly territory, but they should also be able to set up operations even in enemy territory.
GeneralTacticus
Warlord
They added in two special abilities in the 1.21 Patch: Lethal land and lethal sea bomardment. They come right at the bottom of the list.
Lt. 'Killer' M.
Deity
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- 7,475
What we need is air units that can protect units in the field from bombers, then have helicopters able to to tremenduos damage to tank units, then give the fighters a chance to shoot them donw and have SAMs as mobile units, not city improvements. Otherwise, there should be an option to make helicopters do the same as fighters do when they do air supremacy: have them shoot up all tanks that come into the city radius!
I`m thinking along the lines of the Apache attack heli here....
I`m thinking along the lines of the Apache attack heli here....
warpstorm
Yumbo? Yumbo!
Fighters on Air Superiority will protect 1/2 their operational range with the latest patch. I've seen it happen. It came as a surprise to me that it actually worked.
Lt. 'Killer' M.
Deity
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yeah, but I`d like to establish air supremace over the battlefied!
warpstorm
Yumbo? Yumbo!
You can make an airbase unit (or just load the modded one on this site) move it to the battlefield and then rebase your jets to it and set them to Air Superiority.
Lt. 'Killer' M.
Deity
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- 7,475
I`d still like the ability to build scratch bases without a mod unit I have to move there.....
