What to build first?

[ben-jammin]

I dont think when you make contact matters for 'years of peace,' I've met AIs late and received that bonus immediately. Just like 'traded with our worst enemies' and 'declared war on our friend,' these modifiers are in place even without contact.

 

[rfcfanatic]

Worker first is not always a good idea. Especially when you play as Isabella - that worker will stay idle for long, long time.

 

[Qgqqqqq]

Worker. (Unless you have a sea start with fishing).
Always on SP.
Almost always on MP.
@rfcfanatic: research worker techs first. Hook up food, or go straight into mining->BW for chops.

 

[rfcfanatic]

But shouldn't I make use of Isabella's spiritual trait by trying to found a religion by researching Meditation or Polytheism as the first technology? I need one of these techs anyway as they lead to Priesthood which enables Oracle - a wonder almost mandatory for a leader like Isabella.

There are actually two more generic reasons why I'm sceptical about the "worker first" strategy:

1. The game never recommends me a worker as the first build. Perhaps the game considers city growth a wiser strategy which leads us to the second reason:

2. One of Sid's tips says:
A city's population growth is halted while training settlers and workers. It may be better in some cases to let a city grow before training these units.

 

[vandermerwe]

Not sure I buy the SPI=found religion argument. You get to save 1 turn of anarchy on converting and a bonus on temples, but you also get a sub-optimal early tech path and possible diplomatic disadvantages. Maybe Izzy's starting techs suggest that play - tbh they don't suggest much else - but there are strong counter-arguments for still researching Agriculture or Mining and building a worker first IMO.

Oracle is a strong wonder for anyone; not sure why it's mandatory for Izzy in particular. Delaying workers and Bronze Working might mean you'll struggle to build the Oracle without chopping. And even if you did, if you research Mysticism - Meditation - Priesthood straight off, you can't use the Oracle for anything better than Monarchy, which is a waste.

On your other 2 points:

1. The in-game recommendations reflect the same level of insight as used by the AI. Best ignored... there's a thread somewhere on here where someone tried to follow every recommendation and struggled to win on a low level.
2. See 1. Yes, your city won't grow while building a worker, but it will more than make up for that when it can work the tiles that your worker has improved.

 

[volkanbadem]

Warrior.if near the coast without knowledge of fishing.i finish them at the same time,then work boat.let the city grow to 2 then as fast as build the workboat.

 

[FlyinJohnnyL]

The last few posts have been full of bad advice. Always go worker or WB first until you maybe get experienced enough to know the 2% of the time to go warrior first for worker stealing, or the 1% of the time to go settler first when imperialistic.

 

[Thrar]

Worker first has been shown to be the strongest and most reliable opening play in all but highly unusual circumstances.
Even if you're two techs away from AH with only pasture resources, you should get it just 3 or 4 turns after the worker is completed - not enough time to go warrior first without delay. Unless you start with Myst+Fishing, your worker won't even be idle in the meantime.

Worker steal can be an option, but on T1, you don't know yet how close the AI is, so starting with warrior first is a gamble. If you meet someone say in T3 or T4, switching to warrior can be an option.
If you're two techs away from AH with only AH resources and have extra production (most commonly from settling on a PH) you might be able to get a warrior out without delaying your first tile improvement. That's a pretty rare constellation though.
If you're coastal with fish and at least 3 production at size 1, WB first can work. However if you still have some land-based resources, worker first may be stronger even there.

 

[ohjames]

Not sure I buy the SPI=found religion argument. You get to save 1 turn of anarchy on converting and a bonus on temples, but you also get a sub-optimal early tech path and possible diplomatic disadvantages. Maybe Izzy's starting techs suggest that play - tbh they don't suggest much else - but there are strong counter-arguments for still researching Agriculture or Mining and building a worker first IMO.

Yeah, it's the starting-with-Mysticism that makes going for a religion with Polytheism (Meditation rarely works) a viable start, not Spiritual. Even then, if I intend to build Oracle I'm usually not interested in Hinduism because I will most likely pop Confucianism from CoL...

Anyway, with Fishing leaders that have nearby seafood I tend to work the highest production tile (hopefully forested plains hill for 3H) to get out a work boat, then work the seafood tile to produce a worker. But then again, if I'm Mining+Fishing and there's a 3F1C to work right away, I might research Bronze Working and whip the boat out.

With Mining leaders, if I can start by researching Bronze Working (so... Mining+Agriculture leaders, really, because anyone else will need to start with Agriculture unless they have Hunting and Deer) while working a three-food tile I might start by producing a warrior, then using slavery to rush the first worker. I don't think that offers much advantage over a worker start, I just like whipping. I guess if you were Mining+Hunting with Deer you could do this for a scout if you were playing huts.

Anyway... scout first is really only for games with huts on.

 

[volkanbadem]

i believe that for a good opening, 3-4 commerce tiles to be worked is essential at centre city.i'd like to start chopping early and when i settle my 3rd city i would like to build monument first.and cottages as early as possible of course.

 

[Apricottage]

I guess I'll list the times I DON'T go Worker first.

-Start with water resources and Fishing.
-Playing as Huayna Capac.
-Messing around and looking to get instant Stonehenge. Pay attention to the "messing around" bit.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

But shouldn't I make use of Isabella's spiritual trait by trying to found a religion by researching Meditation or Polytheism as the first technology? I need one of these techs anyway as they lead to Priesthood which enables Oracle - a wonder almost mandatory for a leader like Isabella.

There are actually two more generic reasons why I'm sceptical about the "worker first" strategy:

1. The game never recommends me a worker as the first build. Perhaps the game considers city growth a wiser strategy which leads us to the second reason:

2. One of Sid's tips says:
A city's population growth is halted while training settlers and workers. It may be better in some cases to let a city grow before training these units.

The game is ******** don't listen to what it wants use your head. The AI is also ******** don't do what it does like founding early religions. Empire techs provide a much larger boost than some useless religion that the AI will spread to you anyways.

 

[Izuul]

The last few posts have been full of bad advice. Always go worker or WB first until you maybe get experienced enough to know the 2% of the time to go warrior first for worker stealing, or the 1% of the time to go settler first when imperialistic.

For clarification, you are saying that if you have a seafood-only start and lack fishing, you should still go Worker first?

 

[FlyinJohnnyL]

For clarification, you are saying that if you have a seafood-only start and lack fishing, you should still go Worker first?

No, then you should tech fishing and work the best commerce tile you have. Build a warrior until fishing comes in, switch to your highest hammer yield tile, and switch build to a WB.

 

[Izuul]

No, then you should tech fishing and work the best commerce tile you have. Build a warrior until fishing comes in, switch to your highest hammer yield tile, and switch build to a WB.

OK, i agree. Your previous post just made it sound like you thought otherwise because one of those "bad advice" posts right above yours essentially said the same thing.

 

[Strickl3r]

No, then you should tech fishing and work the best commerce tile you have. Build a warrior until fishing comes in, switch to your highest hammer yield tile, and switch build to a WB.

If you have a 3 food tile like a Flood Plain or unimproved Grassland Cows you can also build the warrior and get the workboat+worker on size 2. That way you might have Bronze working + worker for a 2nd work boat which you then can immediatly chop.
It's overall faster, if you consider you have 2-3 food tiles on water most of the times.

 

[FlyinJohnnyL]

OK, i agree. Your previous post just made it sound like you thought otherwise because one of those "bad advice" posts right above yours essentially said the same thing.

The odd punctuation of that post above mine threw me off. I initially read it to mean "warrior." as in, that was the answer to the question.

 

[Killroyan]

Going for scout on settler difficulty is not a bad idea. You pop settlers and workers from huts like mad on that level. I play that level from time to time to have some stupid fun. Best start was with 3 workers, 2 settlers and 2-3 techs easily.

 

[jarhead_leif]

I definitely go for a warrior rather than scout.

 

[NetGear]

Answer as always in life is depends. But if you are looking for rule of thumb, Worker first and SIP is what I recommend for those that are at a level that asks these questions.

As you learn to assess your situation better, you can deviate to suit your purpose, but until then you can't really go wrong doing those 2 early choices IMO.

As for no fish tech start/no other resource start, yeah it gets tricky, but that's grounds for reroll so... whatever. :Lol: