What would you do?

[HankSSSI]

Hey all, the last Civ game I played was Civ II. I'm loving Civ IV. The current MP game I'm in is also my first civ multiplayer game I've ever played. I'll explain the situation.

There's basically the "big three" left in our current game, with two AI civs that are basically just minor at this point. My roommate, as the Japanese, is at the top of the scoring chart. The German AI under Frederick is second, I'm third. Germany is to my north, the Arabs to my west and the Japanese to the far west. Germany and I are on great terms, sharing Judaism and lots of trade. My roommate had the Arabs as his AI friend, but I instigated a war between the Germans and the Arabs which drew in my roommate to the war. The Arabs lost a city and called for peace, leaving my roommate and the Germans in a perpetual war for years.

Right now I feel like the odd man out. The Germans and Japanese are both more powerful than I am. My roommate has around 7000 gold and gets about 700 a turn, compared to my 400 and 50 a turn. I'm looking to damage both the Germans and the Japanese enough for me to start pulling ahead, and I think I have a few options (and Aces up the sleeve) to do so.

For one, the Germans refuse to make peace with my roommate so thankfully both of their industry are caught up in constant military production. Two, I know my roommate is feeling the heat now because he's asked for assistance twice recently. First he wanted me to attack the Germans from behind, but I didn't have the military (nor did I want to). Later he asked me to declare peace with his only, and wavering ally, the Arabs. I did so, but only if he gave me oil. I'm the only one with Flight so I can now produce fighters and gunships.

Two, so far I'm the only one with Uranium. I'm thinking about trying to get the Manhatten Project ASAP so I can produce nukes before everyone else can, if they ever find Uranium. If I could do that, both the Japanese and Germans could be crippled.

Basically, I need to plan a power play soon. The first part, engaging the Japanese and Germans in an ongoing and fruitless war, has been achieved. Neither of them are gaining ground or doing much damage to each others cities, but they're pumping out military units. My roommate may even be on the ropes which is why he's been asking for assistance. I don't want either of them dominating each other though. I need to lure one to believe I'm on their side, cripple the other player and then be in a position to quickly do the same to them. I'm definitely on good terms with the Germans, so I need to choose the right time to act against them or I'll lose a potential ally for the rest of the game.

Right now I'm leaning on the idea of getting nukes before doing anything too rash. I think that would ultimately give me leverage against any opponent, regardless of the situation. So if you were faced with this situation, what would you do?

 

[petey]

If there's that big a difference this late in the game, you're pretty much screwed. I'd say ally yourself with the Germans and attack your roommate from behind. You probably won't be able to do a whole lot of damage to him, but pillage your way across his empire and smack his production so that the Germans can take him down.

When you get nukes, blast the **** out of him. That'll turn the AI against you too, but hopefully you'll be able to wipe your roommate out before you die and at least you'll have beaten him, if not the computer.

It's not much of a strategy, but coming from behind during the late game isn't as feasible as it was in Civ III.

 

[Mujadaddy]

My advice is only slightly different than Petey's ... When you get nukes, scare teh Germans and the Arabs into declaring war on your roommate!!! Who cares if the AI beats YOU as long as HE doesn't?

 

[Vizzini]

Two, so far I'm the only one with Uranium. I'm thinking about trying to get the Manhatten Project ASAP so I can produce nukes before everyone else can, if they ever find Uranium. If I could do that, both the Japanese and Germans could be crippled.

Your roomie will likely storm your border the instant they see that Manhatten Project completion message. I know I certainly would.

There's no need to go there tho. If you're the only one with Flight -and- Oil you've already won. The AI is... AI, so your roommate is who you need to beat. Flight = Bombers and Oil? Well... To quote a famous leader: "Now I have tanks. Ho Ho Ho"

 

[WetWarev7]

You've got the potential to start a snowball effect here. Since Japan is further away(right?) I would take advantage of Germany's focus on the Japanese and start taking over thier territory. If you can take a few(or several) cities quickly enough(multi-pronged attack), you can start churning out bombers and other military, start the manahatten project, and threaten/bribe Arab and Germany into war with Japan.

Start that snowball rollin', and be relentless! Don't stop taking German cities till they agree to ally with you against Japan(again), and when you get those nukes, use 'em!

Never relent - make them pay for even considering existing on the same planet as you....

 

[petey]

You've got the potential to start a snowball effect here. Since Japan is further away(right?) I would take advantage of Germany's focus on the Japanese and start taking over thier territory. If you can take a few(or several) cities quickly enough(multi-pronged attack), you can start churning out bombers and other military, start the manahatten project, and threaten/bribe Arab and Germany into war with Japan.

Start that snowball rollin', and be relentless! Don't stop taking German cities till they agree to ally with you against Japan(again), and when you get those nukes, use 'em!

Never relent - make them pay for even considering existing on the same planet as you....

The problem with doing this is that it weakens the Germans at a time when you need them strong. As you're taking over the German's territory, Japan is doing the same thing on the other side of his civ. Germany is already in a war with him, so there's no bribe available and now he's focusing his economy on conquering useless AI cities instead of keeping his research ramped up and just pillaging Japan - which is the only civ that matters.

The Arabs need to be drawn into the war as well and he should focus on pillaging and bombing and let the AI civs wear the Japs down on everything else. He can also bring his bombers to the support of the German army and weaken the cities they're attacking and help break the stalemate in favour of the Germans before his roommate has a chance to convince them to accept a peace treaty - at which point the game's over and his roommate wins. Once he has nukes, he can bomb his cities and raze whatever remains.

He's not going to win this game. He can, however, beat his roommate by sacrificing the ultimate victory to an AI civ.

 

[HankSSSI]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Petey, you paint a picture I refuse to admit, but you're right...I'm sure at this point I only have the ability to truly take one nation down. If I ally with either Japan or Germany, the other will fall, pretty simple. Right now I'm the only one with flight and oil, but that won't last too long. They have oil, they just need to get to flight now. I need to get bombers ASAP and then work towards nukes. Nukes, fortunately for the time being, seem to be my main Ace in the hole. Unless the others find Uranium or take mine, they won't be able to build any.

You guys brought up an option I didn't consider though, trying to woo the Arabs into coming over to my side. I have such terrible relations with them though, it would take quite a bit of gifting and negotiating. I'm not sure if it's worth the risk. The Japanese have good relations with them, which means they could probably get whatever I give the Arabs. There is another nation, France, that is between Japan and Germany that I could try and bring in on Germany's behalf. Even though their military is weak it would be yet another front opened up in Japan.

I'm heading home from work in about 2 hours to continue the last leg of this MP game. I think you're right though, ultimately I need to attack Japan. I think right now he couldn't afford to effectively fight me, only defend. He's pressed on two sides by Germany (by land and sea), and I'm far enough away to make any kind of attack on my country a big ordeal. He'd have to amass a big enough army and travel over a long distance to get there. If he comes by sea he risks losing entire armies to my navy. At the very least I think I could wreak havoc behind his lines and destroy a lot of his infrastructure which would hurt his efforts against Germany. Snowball effect, snowball effect!!

Just hope he doesn't read these forums...

 

[creatorrr]

Hi Mate,

In such a situation i would recommend you different strategy (if it is not too late). Grab a pan from the kitchen and knock your flatmate down while he is staring in the monitor. Dont knock him too hard coz you may kill him. Once he is unconsciousness destroy all his cities but one and then wake him up. That is the only strategy i think it can help you in this situation, otherwise i think your lost)

 

[Legionary37]

Hmm, I don't know your exact military situation, but if you're powerful enough, I'd reccomend you launch a few invasions at the weaker, minor civs, if possible.

If you can get them consolidated fast enough, I think you may be able to seriously crank out the military units.

Be sure to build an airforce and nukes. Beeline for nukes, seriously. If you can get nukes first, simply blast their major cities and blitz through their territory. If you can destroy their industrial base, you've essentially won the game.

 

[anton_z1]

Dont bother with manhattan project. I build it, i built Nukes, i Used them and They SUCKS. Getting Manahttan + Nuke is eqivalent to get something like 10 bombers which are much much more useful. I also thing uranium is a requirement to build some units (especially naval ones)(you may also use aluminium i think). Use your bombers to bomn out the Japanese ressources (Like aluminium, iron, oil). without them he will ot been able to make military thus be weakened.

 

[WetWarev7]

The problem with doing this is that it weakens the Germans at a time when you need them strong. As you're taking over the German's territory, Japan is doing the same thing on the other side of his civ. Germany is already in a war with him, so there's no bribe available and now he's focusing his economy on conquering useless AI cities instead of keeping his research ramped up and just pillaging Japan - which is the only civ that matters.

The Arabs need to be drawn into the war as well and he should focus on pillaging and bombing and let the AI civs wear the Japs down on everything else. He can also bring his bombers to the support of the German army and weaken the cities they're attacking and help break the stalemate in favour of the Germans before his roommate has a chance to convince them to accept a peace treaty - at which point the game's over and his roommate wins. Once he has nukes, he can bomb his cities and raze whatever remains.

He's not going to win this game. He can, however, beat his roommate by sacrificing the ultimate victory to an AI civ.

I disagree. I think that with Germany's attention focused on Japan, the OP could take most of Germany before either Germany or Japan had a chance to respond effectivly. Since Germany's troops are along the front, Japan still has to go thru them - sure Japan will take a few cities, but I think it is the only way to bring the balance of power to the player. If he can assimilate enough of Germany, and keep churning out those bombers, I think he has a fighting chance to beat everyone.

With Germany and Japan sharing a border, acquiring Germany's land should be key to his bombers reaching into Japan, knocking out resources, creating a kill zone, and generally making a nuisance of himself.

Of course, if this DOESN"T work, you're doomed.....

 

[HankSSSI]

Hey guys, so we're down to the last 15 turns or so and it's not looking good. It's not terrible though. I realized that when I started up again last night I should have switched my civics to military production and focused entirely on creating military units.

I decided to fight a war against Japan through Germany. I had a few cities pumping out bombers, SAM Infantry and fighters (neither of which Germany had) and crossing them over the border for Germany to use. See, the break my roommate had was that the Arabs were a ground buffer between him and the Germans. All Germany could do was strike through the air, which I gave him. Japan had the seas tightened down, so any attacks by the sea were thwarted. Eventually Japan managed to declare peace with Germany. By now I had switched entirely over to creating space ship parts. My roommate, now out of the war, started sabotaging my work and creating his own space parts.

As far as the nukes went, Japan built the UN and Nukes were banned so nobody built the Manhatten Project. I had one final option, one Ace left, and that was my ties with Germany. They still had a massive ground force, and I had techs they needed. I traded a tech to get them to fight the Arabs and they were literally rolled in three turns. Now Japan and Germany's borders were touching and over a long stretch of land. I had no other techs to trade to the Germans, so I had to wait some more turns to get one to trade. When I did, I bribed them to attack Japan! Germany rolled across the entire border and began pillaging like crazy (I could hear in the other room about 10+ screams from pillaging and him groaning, "Awww man!").

The losses to Japan have dropped their score to around Germany's level, which is now about 300-400 points ahead of me. At this point I think I can only hope for a 2nd place win with Germany in 1st if Japan can't hold them off. I wish I had the military built up though instead of the space programs. After a 3-5 more turns Germany should have crippled Japan, at that point I would have hit Germany from behind and tried to capture as many cities as I could before time ran out.

I'm just glad I was able to manipulate the AI so well against my roommate this whole game. Germany basically became my right hand in doing a lot of the things I couldn't afford to do. I'll keep that in mind next game, to make sure I cement relations with at least one AI player and keep him in power enough to check our opponents. Then later take advantage of our good relations to stab him in the back and go for the win.

 

[petey]

That's good news. As long as you're ahead of Japan, Germany doesn't matter. Keep up the pressure on him and try to focus your bombing runs on his food resources for these last few turns. If you can knock down his city size, that'll reduce his points and help you jump over him in the final few runs.

 

[HankSSSI]

Ah, I almost won!! We finally finished it last night. Towards the end I started getting the majority vote at the UN, so every chance I took I went for a Diplomatic victory. Germany and Japan were hammering each other. Germany rampaged through Japan, literally pillaging over 50% of his countryside. His people were starving and some of his biggest cities dropped by half. All the while I was wooing France and Arabia, giving them techs, trading what I could each turn, etc. I managed to finally get France on my good side. All I needed was France's vote and I would have won the diplomatic victory. So just before we had our vote, France declares war on me out of nowhere! Unless the AI on Noble is really good, I suspected my roommate must have bribed him to attack.

It was a fun game though. It could have been closer, but it was close enough to make it interesting all the way to the final turn. I'm really happy with all the options we have to win and the ways to go about getting them. I was near a sure loss at 3rd place, but through constant and shrewd diplomacy I almost pulled out a diplo victory. Time for game two tonight...