What's happened to the Cossack?

[calli]

Before, I used to play as Catherine of Russia and the cossack had a health of 18. THen we bought a second version so I could play multiplayer with my husband. He installed the new patch (1.7 something) and I went from the 1.6 patch to the new one. Now my Cossack has only 15 and doesn't seem much different than a normal cavalry troop. Why?

 

[mystyfly]

Because the 18-strenght Cossack was considered as 'overpowered', so it got 'nerfed', meaning that the game designers decided that the cossack (with 18 strenght) was too powerful and they changed it in order to make it more balanced.

 

[Slobadog]

Because Firaxs thought that it was overpowered. You will notice that the Redcoat is no longer 18 either. The Cossak still has the 50% vs Mounted though.



If you really want a strenth 18 Cossack you could make a mod that changes that. It would be very simple. Just a minor XML edit.

 

[Sisiutil]

Because Firaxs thought that it was overpowered. You will notice that the Redcoat is no longer 18 either. The Cossak still has the 50% vs Mounted though.

The original vanilla Redcoats were only strength 16, but like the Cossack, it was unbalanced and overpowered. As much as I used to love cutting a swath through the renaissance and industrial eras playing as Cathy or Liz, I admit the game needs to retain some sort of challenge.

 

[Slobadog]

Because Firaxs thought that it was overpowered. You will notice that the Redcoat is no longer 18 either. The Cossak still has the 50% vs Mounted though.

sorry got my numbers mixed up. Redcoat used to be 16 not 18.

 

[The Fishman]

The original vanilla Redcoats were only strength 16, but like the Cossack, it was unbalanced and overpowered. As much as I used to love cutting a swath through the renaissance and industrial eras playing as Cathy or Liz, I admit the game needs to retain some sort of challenge.

The question is, Why did they retain strength 8 praets? That unbalances the game even more. Maybe they wanted there to be an unstoppable noob civ...

 

[mythmonster2]

Well, if I recall, they don't have any other bonuses besides the normal swordsman bonus, so if you take away the 8 strength, all you get is an overpriced swordsman.

 

[pieman11]

no actually its just a 8 str unit that requires iron.

no +10% vs cities

 

[Sisiutil]

The question is, Why did they retain strength 8 praets? That unbalances the game even more. Maybe they wanted there to be an unstoppable noob civ...

Kind of the way the Romans themselves were more or less unstoppable. They lost the occasional battle, but generally, not wars.

Just count your lucky stars that the AI hasn't been programmed to properly leverage Praetorians. Yet.

 

[CliftonBazaar]

Look at how many conquest victories there are at high levels in the 'Hall of fame', nearly all of them Incan because of their overpowered UU. (Quecha? - Can be built straight away and %50 bonus V archers)

 

[alco75]

Which is exactly why high scores are so pointless.

In mp, neither the Incan UU nor the Persian UU are anywhere near as powerful as in sp, because a human opponent isn't stupid enough to keep building Archers once those UUs make an appearance.

If the AIs were less stupid in this regard, the above UUs wouldn't seem nearly as overpowered as they do against the AI right now.

highscorelol

 

[The Fishman]

no actually its just a 8 str unit that requires iron.

no +10% vs cities

But they could make it strength 7 and have the city bonus. That would nerf them considerably when not used against cities, and would nerf them slightly when used against cities.

If you want an eight-strength unit, get constuction and build war elephants.

 

[pieman11]

I dont see how that would work, i think that would make them even more OP

of course that would make them weaker in the field, and less of an overall unit.But when attacking cities, which i find myself to do alot their strength would get up to 8.75 stronger than a regular praet no city raider

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I dont see how that would work, i think that would make them even more OP

of course that would make them weaker in the field, and less of an overall unit.But when attacking cities, which i find myself to do alot their strength would get up to 8.75 stronger than a regular praet no city raider

Am I doing the math wrong? 7 * .1 + 7 = 7.7, although I know it doesn't work this way (that 10% is a reduction in defender's STR, IIRC). Now granted, this woudl stack with CR promotions. Still, I'd rather defend against a 7 STR praet with 35% against cities than an 8 STR praet with 25% against cities, and I think you would too.

 

[pieman11]

my apologies, i thought he would give them a +25% bonus, not 10, disregard what i just saidX_X

 

[CivMcNut]

Before, I used to play as Catherine of Russia and the cossack had a health of 18. THen we bought a second version so I could play multiplayer with my husband. He installed the new patch (1.7 something) and I went from the 1.6 patch to the new one. Now my Cossack has only 15 and doesn't seem much different than a normal cavalry troop. Why?

That, bummed me out too when I figured out Cossacks weren't as good as before. They were pretty darned tough in Vanilla. You could actually beat infantry with them quite often. I wish they had just bumped the strength down to 16. That would have been about right.

 

[Light-Giver]

The question is, Why did they retain strength 8 praets? That unbalances the game even more. Maybe they wanted there to be an unstoppable noob civ...

well a axemen has a base strengh of 5 but 50% abainsed mele so its strengh is 7.5 not to much of a diffrence from a peaets, a peaets is like a axemen killer cause a 6 strengh swordsmen cant kill them
If its strengh was 7 a axemen could kill them

 

[vb1]

Imo Cataphracts are a lot more overpowered than praets
Get a few with flanking 2 and you dont even need any siege to take a city

And Cossacks are still good enough at str 15
The AI builds a lot of Cavalry at that age, and having Cossacks saves you the need to bring Riflemen with you as an anti-cav

 

[gettingfat]

Cossacks have actually been nerfed twice. First is the strength reduction, then in BtS rifling is required to build cossacks. Now they are truly not much better than regular cavalry. If I see Catherine as my neighbour and her power rating is going up, why would I build regular cavs to counter her? I'd definitely build rifles, unless Catherine is so much advanced than me I only have knights or Currassiers.

And to make it worse, her financial and creative got robbed in favor of the new leader Wilem (who also has one of the most uber UB..... but so what? If this attracts people to buy BtS, great!), so the only hope they you can outtech your opponents and beeline to build cossacks i likely not that practical.

Russian leaders are over-nerfed IMHO, and Catherine suffers most.

 

[Sealot]

Praetorians are actually easy to counter, as long as you have copper or iron, throw in a couple of axes on your cities. +50% against prets makes them 7.5 str against praets 8.0, plus city culture, plus walls etc. though praets can also have city raider.

Now the problem is that AI isn't smart enough to use axes like this, they rather spam defensive units like archers