What's the Play?

[Gori the Grey]

I mean to go for a domination victory. This is deity, by the way. I'm preparing the standard CB rush, and I know I'll take Thebes. You see there's a good spot for a second city, E of the cotton and SE of the stone. Will bring in two sets of horses, plus two other pasture resources for a strong stable. Brings in truffles as a lux. Circus and stoneworks can chip away at the happiness cost for founding.

Or

For happiness reasons, in a domination game, have as few cities as you can get away with. Moscow and Thebes' borders will eventually hook up. I can grab truffles with a citadel. Or frankly, if I go chop the forest, Moscow will itself expand to that tile.

How would you play it?

 

[cocls]

having only one city in 40T is definitely wrong，you will have big problem in hammer and unit supply.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Well, yes, that's part of why I'm asking the question. What I have in mind as I start a game is to somehow come by a second city that can produce troops when my cap is occupied, e.g. with building the National College.

But a city that one founds takes a good while to get up to the stage where it is contributing troops. You almost always want it to get its monument. It must get its library. Before long, it will probably be called on to produce a happiness building like a colosseum or a circus. So even if you found before turn 40, that city and its hammers are tied up for a good while.

The other option is to let your opponent found your second city for you, and that's possible in this case in that Thebes is so close and so conquerable.

What turn do you target for a second city, cocls? and what is your build order in that city? How soon do you look to it to be producing units?

 

[cocls]

Well, yes, that's part of why I'm asking the question. What I have in mind as I start a game is to somehow come by a second city that can produce troops when my cap is occupied, e.g. with building the National College.

But a city that one founds takes a good while to get up to the stage where it is contributing troops. You almost always want it to get its monument. It must get its library. Before long, it will probably be called on to produce a happiness building like a colosseum or a circus. So even if you found before turn 40, that city and its hammers are tied up for a good while.

The other option is to let your opponent found your second city for you, and that's possible in this case in that Thebes is so close and so conquerable.

having extra city is not only about its hammer, but also about increasing your unit supply limit. You will always exceed your unit limit if you only have one city, that means severe hammer penalty.

BTW, your production list suggest that you are not going for an early warmonger strategy. Builing monument is wasting your hammer if you choose honor. You should not research Writing before luxury tech and Construction, so its common to finish writing at 65-70T. So you will only build a granary before producing army, that would means a lot of time for your expansion to produce army.

it's totally possible to let your opponent found your second city for you. But that would means to use archer rush to conquer a city at 40-45T. If your need CB to take your first city, it would be too late. In your screenshot, Thebes already have wall, and you only have 3 archers right now. I would say it's very risky to conquer Thebes before CB.

 

[Gori the Grey]

No, I beelined Construction. For me, CB rush is: build 5 archers, save up 400g, beeline Construction (~50), upgrade and attack. I never try to take a city with just archers.

Here's the game at turn 65:

I did choose to found a city in the site I was talking about; I founded it on turn 53.

I keep libraries in each city's production queue because I need to get the NC built, or I fall too far behind in science.

I didn't need to worry about the unit cap. As you saw, Moscow had decent population even back at turn 40. Two population goodie huts.

 

[cocls]

No, I beelined Construction. For me, CB rush is: build 5 archers, save up 400g, beeline Construction (~50), upgrade and attack. I never try to take a city with just archers.

Here's the game at turn 65:

View attachment 739241
I did choose to found a city in the site I was talking about; I founded it on turn 53.

I keep libraries in each city's production queue because I need to get the NC built, or I fall too far behind in science.

I didn't need to worry about the unit cap. As you saw, Moscow had decent population even back at turn 40. Two population goodie huts.

if you expand early , you can still take Thebes at the similar time, and you will have 2-3 more troops, and your st. petersburg will have 5-6 pop.
BTW, if your next target it machinery, researching philosophy and building NC will only delay it.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Is that right? B/c that's how I always play. Phil, NC, beeline Machinery.

How do you keep up science if you don't do that? When do you get Machinery, by your method.

 

[mbbcam]

Is that right? B/c that's how I always play. Phil, NC, beeline Machinery.

How do you keep up science if you don't do that? When do you get Machinery, by your method.

If you haven't tried it, this strategy is interesting:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...-city-industrial-era-domination-guide.529482/

The way Peddroelm always played his Domination games was to delay war until he got Machinery. He made many videos, among which is this demonstration of his method:

He tended to use Trade Routes to leech Science from a neighbour before attacking them. He also used nearby City States to farm experience so that his units started a war already promoted.

I've always found it tricky to pull off this strategy, but when it works it is spectacular!

The alternative is Acken's Liberty Domination strategy:

 

[Gori the Grey]

I one time tried delaying my conquesting until Machinery. It didn't go well. Of course, that's all I did. I didn't find some alternate way to get experience for my troops, e.g.

I watched the first of those Peddroelm videos. Man, the guy is unflappable. I think of Dutch as one of the worst civs. He gets a completely sub-optimal start. He has trouble snatching workers, particular trouble with the one in the barb camp. Nothing goes his way on that one. But he keeps plodding right along.

 

[mbbcam]

I one time tried delaying my conquesting until Machinery. It didn't go well. Of course, that's all I did. I didn't find some alternate way to get experience for my troops, e.g.

I watched the first of those Peddroelm videos. Man, the guy is unflappable. I think of Dutch as one of the worst civs. He gets a completely sub-optimal start. He has trouble snatching workers, particular trouble with the one in the barb camp. Nothing goes his way on that one. But he keeps plodding right along.

Some of his videos are a hoot. Watching him methodically chew through the opposition is very educational. In the one where he plays America he gets attacked quite early by the Huns. He just beats them off and then goes and captures their capital. If you want to play Honor I'd recommend watching what he does. An amazing player. Seeing the late game with the map covered with tanks is quite something. I've only managed it a few times but it is very satisfying when it works.

 

[cocls]

Is that right? B/c that's how I always play. Phil, NC, beeline Machinery.

How do you keep up science if you don't do that? When do you get Machinery, by your method.

If you're playing on a standard-sized Pangaea-like map, Machinery + Gunpowder is sufficient in most cases to achieve a Domination Victory.
You can completely ignore the upper tech line starting from Philosophy and Civil Service, and focus on millitary tech. And warmonger strategy will delay AI tech progress by a lot, so you will not fall behind in millitary tech before you win.

If you're playing on larger size, or Continent map, going for NC is generally a good idea, but Honor would not be a good policy choice.

 

[Gori the Grey]

I've been trying your method, cocls.

In my Egypt game, I botched my next attack, on Palenque.

So I fired up another game. I got the Huns (which one develops a little differently in the opening stages). I founded a second city by turn thirty. It did grow (it helped that I got Sun-God and the site had citrus and wheat). And I used it to produce troops. I took Assur. (He built so many siege engines I could barely get a melee troop adjacent to the capital). But then I forgot to make peace, so they retook the city the next turn. Don't play when tired.

Next, Arabia.

Feels weird not to have borders expand. In the Hun game, my fourth citizen was actually unemployed, b/c three of my tiles were desert.

I do play standard-sized pangaea.