When advising, show your skill

[Splify60]

I often read post on here where people give advice which they present as fact, which sometimes is right, sometimes is wrong, but most often depends on the difficulty level. (And a whole lot of other factors.

Example: saw a thread where someone said that duplicate luxs doesn't help much early game because the AIs don't have enough gold to trade. While that might be true on prince, I play on Deity and that is almost never the case. If you're giving advice, I think it would be helpful to post what difficulty you play on (some do, but not most).

Splify60 - Deity player

 

[georgie]

I often read post on here where people give advice which they present as fact, which sometimes is right, sometimes is wrong, but most often depends on the difficulty level. (And a whole lot of other factors.

Example: saw a thread where someone said that duplicate luxs doesn't help much early game because the AIs don't have enough gold to trade. While that might be true on prince, I play on Deity and that is almost never the case. If you're giving advice, I think it would be helpful to post what difficulty you play on (some do, but not most).

Splify60 - Deity player

Better watch out. You're going to be called elitist by some members.

 

[parts]

I often read post on here where people give advice which they present as fact, which sometimes is right, sometimes is wrong, but most often depends on the difficulty level. (And a whole lot of other factors.

Example: saw a thread where someone said that duplicate luxs doesn't help much early game because the AIs don't have enough gold to trade. While that might be true on prince, I play on Deity and that is almost never the case. If you're giving advice, I think it would be helpful to post what difficulty you play on (some do, but not most).

Splify60 - Deity player

I really think this would just make people from lower difficulties just not want to post, though.

 

[Splify60]

I really wasn't going for elitist, although I can see might come off that way

I am just trying to see people get tips that are relevant and useful...

Maybe your right about the lower difficulties not wanting to post, and that would be terrible... But it's not like there is shame in playing lower skills, just a question of time invested, I have a very understanding girlfriend

 

[Gabriel Pyyrhic]

I often read post on here where people give advice which they present as fact, which sometimes is right, sometimes is wrong, but most often depends on the difficulty level. (And a whole lot of other factors.

Example: saw a thread where someone said that duplicate luxs doesn't help much early game because the AIs don't have enough gold to trade. While that might be true on prince, I play on Deity and that is almost never the case. If you're giving advice, I think it would be helpful to post what difficulty you play on (some do, but not most).

Splify60 - Deity player

Its not a bad idea, but I would also say its better to reference in the response why the difficulty is Important, otherwise its not really going to help much.

In other words just because you have referenced your skill level, does not mean what you are saying is a reflection of that skill level.

In your duplicate luxuries example, anyone who plays any moderately difficult level (or larger maps) know how to make use of it, and so are going to see the OP's comments as a reflection of their playstyle.

Conversely anyone who is not familiar with how things change (via difficulty or map size, speed etc) probably isn't going to garner any benefit from seeing the skill level you play at tacked at the bottom of your post.

Finally, difficulty is not the only thing that bias a players gameplay decisions and opinions. Game speed and map size are also very important.

I do see your point however.

 

[Splify60]

Finally, difficulty is not the only thing that bias a players gameplay decisions and opinions. Game speed and map size are also very important.

Could not agree more! Every game and player is different, so we really should be posting as advice instead of fact, since very few things are fact in CiV.

Except of course that the Mongols are jerks

 

[pozz]

I really wasn't going for elitist, although I can see might come off that way

I am just trying to see people get tips that are relevant and useful...

Maybe your right about the lower difficulties not wanting to post, and that would be terrible... But it's not like there is shame in playing lower skills, just a question of time invested, I have a very understanding girlfriend

But will "deity player" actually prove anything, I mean, I might be a settler and can easily write that if I want to.

People might sometimes place wrong, or inefficient advice, and I often see those things discussed. I see this as a good thing as it helps awareness in general. Discussion is ALWAYS good, as long as both(all) parties can maintain an open mind and not throw poop at each other.

Which I find this forum very capable of in general.

 

[Splify60]

But will "deity player" actually prove anything, I mean, I might be a settler and can easily write that if I want to.

People might sometimes place wrong, or inefficient advice, and I often see those things discussed. I see this as a good thing as it helps awareness in general. Discussion is ALWAYS good, as long as both(all) parties can maintain an open mind and not throw poop at each other.

Also a fair point, I meant to use deity player to establish context, as in, this advice is useful at this skill level... Not, I'm smarter than you because I play deity...

For instance, back when you didn't need a DoF to trade resources for gold... You usually sell your resources as often as possible... But that only works on difficulties when the AI has the gold to buy them... Otherwise other focus is needed

 

[Splify60]

Ok, I will stop being defensive now

I think it's clear I wasn't trying to be an elitist... And if its not, I apologise!

 

[pozz]

Also a fair point, I meant to use deity player to establish context, as in, this advice is useful at this skill level... Not, I'm smarter than you because I play deity...

For instance, back when you didn't need a DoF to trade resources for gold... You usually sell your resources as often as possible... But that only works on difficulties when the AI has the gold to buy them... Otherwise other focus is needed

Oh I didn't read it as "lawls, I'm like deity so all you scrubs listen to me" at all

Most important really is for people to ask for advice for "insert difficulty here", generally I think people wont advice people above their own skill level, and as said, if they do my guess is 'someone will set them straight' (was trying to think of a way to phrase it to make is sound less hostile) and a discussion will occur where the person advicing might learn something as well =)

 

[eewallace]

It makes sense to post what level you are playing at. And if your advice is for a particular type of map, post that as well.

And I'm not saying this because people who play on deity necessarily provide "good" advice and those that play on lower levels provide "bad" advice. Obviously, many strategies that work on prince won't work on deity. But also, some things that work on deity don't actually work well if you are playing prince--such as the example above about luxuries. If a deity players advises a prince player to develop and sell luxes on turn 30, the prince player is going to be disappointed to find that the AI (who doesn't have starting bonuses at prince) doesn't have the gold to buy them.

And, for example, someone might say "always build two scouts first." Yes, that might be a great idea if you are playing on a huge pangea map--not so much in other situations.

(I'm currently playing on king but toying around with emperor.)

 

[CraigMak]

Better watch out. You're going to be called elitist by some members.

I think this is an absurd idea. People's skill levels are relevant. Otherwise it's like the blind leading the blind. I personally would want to know if advice is coming from a total noob or someone with 5000 hours. By this logic people would say that their basketball coach is elitist and kids should listen only to each other. Or a scientist or doctor is elitist for telling you what's what. They're not elitist they know more about the subject at hand.

 

[georgie]

I think this is an absurd idea. People's skill levels are relevant. Otherwise it's like the blind leading the blind. I personally would want to know if advice is coming from a total noob or someone with 5000 hours. By this logic people would say that their basketball coach is elitist and kids should listen only to each other. Or a scientist or doctor is elitist for telling you what's what. They're not elitist they know more about the subject at hand.

I agree with you and the OP. I was simply warning him that that may be what would become of the thread.

 

[qalsip1977]

I generally try to reference the difficulty level I'm referring to when commenting on a game mechanic or strategy.

That said...I play at several difficulties depending on what kind of game I want to play. I don't go below Prince. I play Prince when I just want to faceroll or if I'm going for an achievement. If I want a casual game where there's a bit of a challenge but I'm still pretty sure to win then I'll play King or Emporer. If I want a good tough game where I have to think I play Deity.

 

[kb27787]

It's just that civV strategies differ greatly among difficulty levels
I think rather than post the player's skill (which, aside from an LP, cannot be proven), post the difficulty level in which the advice would pertain to.

For example: settle even on turn 12 with your starting settler so you can block AIs expansion easily works only on immortal downwards with deity the AI gets an extra settler.
Rush for pottery, writing and GL for philosophy only works on emperor downwards (unless you get Solomon's minds, three tech ruins, or just a bunch of forest to chop with 3 workers etc.)

etc.

 

[parts]

Oh I didn't read it as "lawls, I'm like deity so all you scrubs listen to me" at all

Most important really is for people to ask for advice for "insert difficulty here", generally I think people wont advice people above their own skill level, and as said, if they do my guess is 'someone will set them straight' (was trying to think of a way to phrase it to make is sound less hostile) and a discussion will occur where the person advicing might learn something as well =)

Yeah, this. I get that it's otherwise a case of "the blind leading the blind", as someone else said, but really everyone was King, Emperor, Prince even, once, and imagine they come on here, see a question to which they answer. But as a matter of practical fact, if our hypothetical K/E/P saw that all the previous repliers are deity, deity, deity... they're just not going to say anything. There would just be a very small, closed circle of posters talking then.

I imagine informally we've already developed a pretty good system to deal with this. Most people post the diff level they're asking for help on, and if not it's just a matter of asking the OP.

 

[Cicerosaurus]

I agree with Gabriel Pyrrhic above. However, I'll go further and be the lone voice against the concept. Firstly, I think it is wrong labeling it a skill level- it is a difficulty level. I can play Diety all the time- I may lose every game but I'd be able to end every post with "Diety". To assign more importance to a comment simply because the author has played on a specific level doesn't make a great deal of sense.

And the reverse would also happen- you are cheapening the currency of those posters who for whatever reason wish to play at a lower difficulty level.

Cicerosaurus, soon to be immortal, small continents, large map, infoaddict enabled, normal speed, blood type A.

 

[Arachnofiend]

Also a fair point, I meant to use deity player to establish context, as in, this advice is useful at this skill level... Not, I'm smarter than you because I play deity...

This wasn't 100% clear in your first post but this is absolutely true. Besides, just as some advice for King doesn't work on Deity, some advice that works on Deity doesn't work on King; pretty much anything involving AI gold (rush buying settlers/workers, research agreements) has to be thrown out the window on lower difficulties. A beginner who looks to the high level players for advice will often times find that much of what is standard on Immortal and Deity isn't even possible on King and Emperor.

 

[kukatr]

Or just encourage people filling their 'about me' block with their difficulty level they play on.

 

[Tabarnak]

Better do the opposite. The OP should tell which level he is playing on and other players should give advice based on OP level skill. Naturally, some players will agree and some things and converge on a certain consensus from what others already said.

Like another poster had wrote, different strategies apply and differ from levels. You can't get 4 workers and litterally jump into heaven rapidly at king/emp level where you can't steal a single worker for at least 25-35 turns right from start.

If OP asks about a lot of things it can be complicated too. I think that he better read the S&T forums, learn from there then ask more specific questions in regard of level played. It brings more useful infos overall.

So i disagree about putting skill level it's not relevant. A deity player who never plays emperor can't analyse corretly whats is good or not because he will explain in deity terms which often don't apply for the emperor level.

The GOTM section is faboulus for this. It's full of useful infos about different kind of starts and levels. You can play the games, compare strategies and see what the best players can do and they will show you with images and precise informations and the ''how'' and ''when'', BOs, AI behaviors, etc.