When is the best time to start building the Pyramids ?
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scy12
Deity
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After you spawn the GE from the forge/oracle gambit
Well i usually go Caste system , build the oracle and then select Civil service instead. (more expensive technology , allows bureaucracy ) Plus the forge/oracle gambit is a gambit. A philosophical forge engineer coming from a second not oracle city may work but it could be too late ...
AnitaGaribaldi
Warlord
I build the pyramids when I'm planning to run Representation early or in cultural games to rush buy.
scy12
Deity
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Maybe i should rephrase the question. How early and how can i build the Pyramids without sacrificing the game for it.
in sp i would say you should start it after having 2 cities(with the other city planing on expanding more relativly soon) with stone. Without stone i have no idea but i guess it would be fairly late and hence prolly miss it to the AI. Unless you have a strategy highly dependable on it i would say its just too many hammers unless your industrious and have stone or something. As a sidenote stone and marble is one of the few reasources its actually good to settle on as they arent that amazing to work and they give an extra hammer to the city imeadiatly. Setling on a plains hill with marble or stone is just insane.
In MP i would almost never build it unless you have stone then if you get stone around the time you have 3 cities you can defend properly you can try for it i supose.
In MP i would almost never build it unless you have stone then if you get stone around the time you have 3 cities you can defend properly you can try for it i supose.
Jet
No, no, please. Please.
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I don't know, but if you want to test it quickly I'd suggest starting some OCC games on Quick speed and just keep hitting Enter (loop building Warriors or something). Make note of what year the Pyramids get built. You'll get an adequate idea and it won't take that long to do. Or:
0. Might need to set cheatcode to chipotle in your Civ .ini file
1. ` (backtick)
2. ai autoplay 100 (..... or some other number of turns)
3. Enter
I wouldn't build them on Monarch without convenient access to Stone (second city or maybe the inner ring of the third city), and I had a good production city, and I had adequate barb defense.
I did just build them in a game where my Settler started on a Stone hill, along with Stonehenge and the Great Wall.
Just had to do it. Even then, my capital had good production, and my second city had Horses. And I paid for it with a slow start; I think I'll have to settle for a close space race in that game. Granted, I didn't exploit Representation properly.
0. Might need to set cheatcode to chipotle in your Civ .ini file
1. ` (backtick)
2. ai autoplay 100 (..... or some other number of turns)
3. Enter
I wouldn't build them on Monarch without convenient access to Stone (second city or maybe the inner ring of the third city), and I had a good production city, and I had adequate barb defense.
I did just build them in a game where my Settler started on a Stone hill, along with Stonehenge and the Great Wall.
Just had to do it. Even then, my capital had good production, and my second city had Horses. And I paid for it with a slow start; I think I'll have to settle for a close space race in that game. Granted, I didn't exploit Representation properly.
Ecofarm
Deity
If you are willing to chop it, you can build them without stone or industrious even on emporer.
Beeline monotheism, found and adopt jew, organized religion, chop.
Unless you run caste and assign alot of specialists (and are philo?) this is likely a fatal strat.
Using the chop+whip overflow for cash exploit and US, a new level of cheater domination may be possible.
Beeline monotheism, found and adopt jew, organized religion, chop.
Unless you run caste and assign alot of specialists (and are philo?) this is likely a fatal strat.
Using the chop+whip overflow for cash exploit and US, a new level of cheater domination may be possible.
Hold The Onion
Chieftain
They always set me back too much. If I have stone, lots of land, and the Great Wall to free up hammers from barb defense, then I like to give it a go. But those are very dependant circumstances.
I only build pyramids when isolated or have stone. In first case I usually chop down all the forests around a city, you can have it 95% sure on emperor if you start early enough. (after you have 2 cities, usually)
In second case you have to be much faster. You have to sacrifise other worker techs to get BW, masonry and wheel early enough. Again, start wonder after worker-warrior-settler and maybe another worker if you haven't hooked up stone yet. You can build it in your second city, but I usually prefer my capital. But don't go for pyramids first, chop GW instead: it will take care of your barb problem and will give you even more GE points. That was the hardest part (AIs really love GW), then just keep going and chop the pyramids same way. Use your engineer for GL and you have almost won the liberalism race.
In second case you have to be much faster. You have to sacrifise other worker techs to get BW, masonry and wheel early enough. Again, start wonder after worker-warrior-settler and maybe another worker if you haven't hooked up stone yet. You can build it in your second city, but I usually prefer my capital. But don't go for pyramids first, chop GW instead: it will take care of your barb problem and will give you even more GE points. That was the hardest part (AIs really love GW), then just keep going and chop the pyramids same way. Use your engineer for GL and you have almost won the liberalism race.
What does Caste System have to do with rushing the Pyramids???
Caste System ONLY allows unlimited Artist, Merchants and Scientist NOT Priest or Engineers.
This Civic would be way overpowered with it allowed you unlimied Engineers, you'll just beeline to COLs and Philosophy Slingshot and just Assign Engineers and receiving unlimited GEs, Rushing Wonders like mad :S lol
but this would be at the sacrifice of Slavery, Would work every well with Gandhi (Spi/Phil) though.
Pyramids, NEVER build them unless it's part of your strategy, to be honest there is no best time to build them on higher levels. Just pray that you'll get there first.
the bright side of not completing the Mids is you get ALOT of cash as compensation for 100% research for a LONG LONG Time so losing them isn't necessarily a bad thing.
but if you must get those Mids there are a couple of gambits you can attempt.
Philo - Oracle/MC/Forge gambit
Ind - Stone/Manonry/BW/Chop.
If you have neither of these, Pray for the RNG gods to be nice to you.
I have gotten the Mids on many occasions after the discovery of Mathamatics for 30 base Hammers Powerchops. Especially with Ind and Stone, that's 75H per chop. Very nice.
scy12
Deity
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I think he means that rushing for the pyramids (as he described) is a fatal , useless strat unless you are going to be using specialists. Which isn't t unknown from one's own experience in monarch but i don't want to snob any advice so it is alright.
Like i said i like to use usually my Oracle for Civil service . Can i continue to do so ?
Going for the GW first could be a nice idea but i am interested of the Speed it would take to build the GW and then use the engineer for the mids. Wouldn't it be faster and safer (in the context that other Ai will have more trouble outspeeding you) just to build the mids first ? I haven't done any calculations really.
Hold The Onion
Chieftain
he's saying Great Wall for protection so you can use the hammers you'd normally use on a defensive army on the pyramids instead. that is, if i'm reading correctly. GE points are mearly a bonus from doing this.
popejubal
Emperor
After you have stone hooked up or after your first GE.
popejubal
Emperor
That's true, but you could also chop a whole lot of other stuff with those hammers.
Pyramids are a BIG investment and you're not making axemen, archers, settlers or workers with those hammers if you're making Pyramids.
...not that Pyramids are inherantly bad. They're just a really big investment. Choose carefully.
Exactly.
And Getting GE through GW was a common gambit before patch, so now GW gives you only 1 GE point instead of two. No way that you can get engineer early enough.
I only build pyramids when I have stone and there's no point in building anything else. (So generally when I don't have copper/iron/horses on a continents/one landmass map, or there are no neighbours and I can't expand to other islands for whatever reason and the great lighthouse has already been built)
Since it takes quite a while to determine that this is the case, I then would only really do it in a town that was already size 6ish and has plenty of production so that I was likely to even get there first.
In other words, I rarely build pyramids
Since it takes quite a while to determine that this is the case, I then would only really do it in a town that was already size 6ish and has plenty of production so that I was likely to even get there first.
In other words, I rarely build pyramids
