1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

When other civs come a-begging

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by CaptainPatch, Nov 27, 2013.

  1. OneOfOldiest

    OneOfOldiest Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2011
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Zagreb, Croatia
    It's not true. You must carefully click on amount boxes middle part then offer will not be cleared and you will be able to corect gold amount.
     
  2. Ford

    Ford Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2010
    Messages:
    121
    This says more about your mindset than about the game, and I'm actually surprised there are so many players here taking this as a personal affront. It's not a scam, it's just a mechanic that is giving you the chance to improve your diplomatic relations with the AI you are friends with.
    You know it's going to happen when you accept the offer of friendship, it's part of the deal, and if accepted brings a huge boost to your friendship.
     
  3. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    3,575
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Deep inside...
    ... and at the same time prevent you from using it (and effectively, lowering your military power ratio, which again increases the chance of DoW).

    As for human player requesting, of course we can do that... just put a one-sided trade on the table and click Propose; it's exactly the same, and in rare occasions, AI accepts (I remember it happening to me at least once, but don't have a date/version/proof).
     
  4. CaptainPatch

    CaptainPatch Lifelong gamer

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Messages:
    832
    Location:
    San Rafael, CA, USA
    To be honest, I think when Friends come asking for a significant percentage of your surplus wealth, it's just the program trying to "balance" the scales" of power between the competitors. As in, the human player is starting to stretch out his lead in the game. Luxuries = Happiness, which if you have enough of it gives you freedom to have more units in play. Lots of money allows you to quick-build units and structures, abruptly changing the balance of power.

    That is, IF you actually give what is asked for, in hopes of getting some kind of Diplo bonus. With someone that is most likely a Friend already anyway.

    I've made a practice of _politely_ refusing the requests. I'd rather have the flexibility in spending for MY material gain than help others close the gap on whatever lead I may have. Hasn't hurt my Diplomatic relationship with anyone. Yet. (That I can tell.)
     
  5. Smokeybear

    Smokeybear Emperor

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,240
    Location:
    US
    An AI friend is a friend in need, indeed.
     
  6. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2003
    Messages:
    13,579
    Location:
    Norfolk, VA
    With luxuries, I just think of myself as a pusher. I get them hooked and, when they come back, I charge them full price. They only ask for the extra copy, not the original, so I'm not losing happiness I'm just not gaining it by trading someone for a luxury (although, if they had a luxury, I'd probably have traded it before I got the request).

    With money, I've always said no. I usually need it for a specific reason at that moment and don't want to have to wait longer by paying the AI.
     
  7. Xiao Xiong

    Xiao Xiong Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2009
    Messages:
    480
    I have never seen them beg for your last lux, or ask for gpt when you have already got a gpt deal running with them.

    I used to interpret the begging as a sign that I messed up and forgot to trade a lux. In every case they beg, you just missed an opportunity to trade.

    However, I now only trade with the AI on favorable terms, lux for lux, and only accept 6 or 7 gpt, if they only will give me 3 or 4 then no deal.

    Unless you have something better in mind, like a lux for lux trade, the diplo bonus may be worth it. But, bear in mind you are helping them golden age. If it's a civ that gets big bonuses in a golden age, or they built a wonder that gives bonuses, think twice about ever giving them a lux.
     
  8. Aldor

    Aldor King

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2005
    Messages:
    685
    Location:
    Germany
    An AI asking for DoF (and you accepting it) is a hint for YOU to visit them on the next turn and offer them trade deals :)

    But with gold requests, I mostly do as you do: If they're unreasonable, I'll just decline.
     
  9. beestar

    beestar subdeity

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2005
    Messages:
    1,596
    Location:
    Pacific Standard Time
    Does the AI ever beg from other AIs? (Would we have to look into the code to understand this?)
     
  10. Walter R

    Walter R Great Engineer

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2013
    Messages:
    713
    Location:
    England
    An interesting viewpoint, I never thought of it that way.
     
  11. Dogmouth

    Dogmouth King

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    613
    The negative attitude is probably an artifact of earlier versions that gave you a negative modifier for saying no. This malus was pretty irksome combined with the often absurd requests from the AI (can you imagine a country in the real world getting indignant when an ally refuses to gift a third of its GDP with absolutely no strings attached?) Kudos to Firaxis for fixing it.
     
  12. RonMar

    RonMar Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2010
    Messages:
    222
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    I usually decline their outrageous requests, but on my turn, I try to remember to check their diplomatic page for their actual financial situation. Often, I give them a hundred or two gold, especially if they are actually in dire straights. I get a short, temporary green "we have traded recently" modifier.
     
  13. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    3,575
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Deep inside...
    Yes, and yes:

    Code:
    /// Is this AI willing to make a request of ePlayer
    bool CvDiplomacyAI::IsMakeRequest(PlayerTypes ePlayer, CvDeal* pDeal, bool& bRandPassed)
    {
    	bool bFriendly = GetMajorCivApproach(ePlayer, /*bHideTrueFeelings*/ true) == MAJOR_CIV_APPROACH_FRIENDLY;
    
    	if(bFriendly && IsDoFAccepted(ePlayer))
    	{
    		// Is there something we want?
    		bool bWantsSomething = false;
    		// Is there a strong reason why we want something? (added to rand roll)
    		int iWeightBias = 0;
    
    		// Luxury Request
    		if(!bWantsSomething)
    			bWantsSomething = IsLuxuryRequest(ePlayer, pDeal, iWeightBias);
    		// Gold Request
    		if(!bWantsSomething)
    			bWantsSomething = IsGoldRequest(ePlayer, pDeal, iWeightBias);
    
    		if(bWantsSomething)
    		{
    			// Random element
    			int iRand = GC.getGame().getJonRandNumVA(100, "Diplomacy AI: Friendly civ request roll. (%d; %d)", (int)GetPlayer()->GetID(), (int)ePlayer);
    
    			iRand += iWeightBias;
    
    			if(iRand >= 67)
    			{
    				bRandPassed = true;
    				return true;
    			}
    			else
    			{
    				bRandPassed = false;
    				return false;
    			}
    		}
    	}
    
    	return false;
    }
    
    No distinction whatsoever in the code for human player; the code above runs for every AI, in every turn.

    Another interesting thing is that the check for luxury request comes before the check for gold request; therefore, if you want to avoid the usually outrageous gold request, ALWAYS have a luxury they need at hand ;) so you can secure both a manageable request AND the diplo bonus (that is, if you are really cultivating that relation).

    CvDiplomacyAI.cpp: line 4714
     
  14. beestar

    beestar subdeity

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2005
    Messages:
    1,596
    Location:
    Pacific Standard Time
    That's totally cool. So the AI may receive positive diplo from another AI if they accede to the gift request!

    Thinking of it from the giving side: is the AI's willingness to accede to another AI's gift request handled by the same routine as their willingness to accede to a human demand? Presumably not, since the former is benign and the latter is "hostile".

    What I'm getting at is, is it possible for the human to request a gift in a way that is handled by the same benign algorithm? Is it just going to the trade screen, and asking for 400 gold and offering nothing in exchange?
     
  15. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    3,575
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Deep inside...
    EDIT: never mind.
     
  16. VictusUmbra

    VictusUmbra Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Messages:
    3
    What I find annoying is you can't do the same in reverse. If you went to them and said "Hey can I haz sum citrus cuz you got 4 and I'ze got -4 happiness." their response would be "This is never going to get anywhere if you don't offer a fair deal."
     
  17. CaptainPatch

    CaptainPatch Lifelong gamer

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Messages:
    832
    Location:
    San Rafael, CA, USA
    That actually is the same as you Refusing a gift request. And probably, it's the response you get if that civ isn't super-Friendly with you. I don't know just how Friendly a civ has to be to _give_ you something for nothing, but I'm sure the AI's criteria is MUCH more severe than that of most players. (Who are thinking, "If I _give_ them this, I get a significant Diplo boost with them , right?")
     
  18. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    3,575
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Deep inside...
    Unfortunately, there is no way; I have to withdraw one of my oldest postings saying that you can "request" to the AI with an empty deal. I found the block of code that basically makes the AI reject any HUMAN proposal that has an empty counterpart.
     
  19. beestar

    beestar subdeity

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2005
    Messages:
    1,596
    Location:
    Pacific Standard Time
    I guess at least it eliminates the Civ 4 feature of 'begging' the AI for gold. If you wanted optimum play, you had to remember to do that with friendly AIs every X turns ...
     
  20. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    3,575
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Deep inside...
    Well, yes, and more... the block of code that automatically rejects any human request (empty trade on the AI side) is commented as something like "To eliminate human player exploit of the AI", which clearly points to the intended effect of such code.
     

Share This Page