Where do I settle?

[andersw]

This is a somewhat classic question so feel free to add questions and images in the thread on settle layouts for you land or initial settle.

(and if its just me well then ...)

I got a really juicy start, there are a few buts (note I play with a mod to see full fat cross at start like in civ4).
Scout moved sw to hill and have a spare move.
On the left is the only forest hill.
Sip looks really juicy but I'm not sure what the current jungle to hammer exchange rate is, it would give me early access to that silk, defence on flat land is also crap.
Settle on salt just north looks decent, I'll mostly give up river jungle tiles (and the salt mine bonuses) for the extra hammer, I'd probably get earlier access to that wheat and oasis in exchange of a probable delay of silk access.
Also do I get the faith and gold from earth mother if I settle on salt or is that only on improved tiles?

 

[StevenV]

I would choose NW salt hill.

 

[andersw]

I would choose NW salt hill.

I think I'll go for that, the instant luxury with mining is nice and keeping freshwater bonus from river (compared to forest hill nw) not to mention that flat land capital just screams "come and attack me".

 

[StevenV]

I think I'll go for that, the instant luxury with mining is nice and keeping freshwater bonus from river (compared to forest hill nw) not to mention that flat land capital just screams "come and attack me".

Well, usually if you playing 'right' your capital should be in danger...

 

[Owlbebach]

i think place where you stand is fine, but Salt on hill is also okay. Additional hammer at the start makes big difference, also settling on the Salt grants you access to Petra which is huge in this situation. But you loose good tile that can be improved very fast, so being where you are is also okay.

I think i'd move to the north Salt but because of Petra. Without Petra - stay where you are, rush mining, steal worker

 

[andersw]

i think place where you stand is fine, but Salt on hill is also okay. Additional hammer at the start makes big difference, also settling on the Salt grants you access to Petra which is huge in this situation. But you loose good tile that can be improved very fast, so being where you are is also okay.

I think i'd move to the north Salt but because of Petra. Without Petra - stay where you are, rush mining, steal worker

Interesting I've always seen petra as a crap wonder in VP but I'll give it a shot.

 

[Owlbebach]

Interesting I've always seen petra as a crap wonder in VP but I'll give it a shot.

On Deity Petra is incredible cause Trade Routes give you 50% of your science and culture.

EDIT: in the early game you have 8-12-20 science and every Trade Route can grant you 5-8 science per turn.

 

[tu_79]

If you settle over salt you won't get the pantheon bonus for mines. Much better over forest/jungle. Silk is too far away for your capital, but you could consider it for your second city, would you take the Iron path. I'd rather settle it between the other salt tiles.

 

[andersw]

On Deity Petra is incredible cause Trade Routes give you 50% of your science and culture.

EDIT: in the early game you have 8-12-20 science and every Trade Route can grant you 5-8 science per turn.

I'm far far from diety those traderoutes are for internal use in my game.

 

[Stalker0]

I would probably settle as is. Early hammers for the jungle, can get the salt online quickly, and food to the north to jump start growth. Everything a good capital needs.

 

[pineappledan]

My vote would be to settle where you are. The advantages of moving need to be clear, because you are giving away an entire turn as well. If the benefits of moving are marginal, then there is no reason to let yourself fall behind on turn 1.

You lose more in the long term than you gain by settling that salt tile. You're giving up an immediate 15, then you effectively lose 1 every turn after you have unlocked mining, because an improved tile is more valuable than a settled tile.

 

[John.B.C]

I would probably settle on the jungle to the North east, sacrificing One turn for the possibility of 2 extra floodplains in the unrevealed area to the north (a lot of food!) Also there is the possibility of more undiscovered resources there in the desert. I also don't care so much about the capital being on a hill for defensive purposes, since i find that the capital often is quite esay to defend compared to satellite cities, whom i often desire to plant on hills if possible.

And i get acess to petra + 15 production from jungle (which is a nice boost). I would almost never plant a city on a resource, especially not on something as easily improvable as 'salt' and being such a good nice tile to have early on in the game.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

I would settle NE from the starting position.
You would get the hammers from jungle cutting, two 3 food tiles and the chance for immidiatly getting the 4 food tile NW is very high. And you can go petra, a wonder I always try to catch.

 

[andersw]

I went for the salt hill and managed to get Petra, there was a desent amount of desert.
Also tried the desert pantheon and later thrifts, the income is good

And I think I'd never want a non hill capital, even in this case where I expanded in almost all directions I got Carthagenian troops on my doorstep from the west, it also make archers so much better when defending.

 

[StevenV]

I went for the salt hill and managed to get Petra, there was a desent amount of desert.
Also tried the desert pantheon and later thrifts, the income is good

And I think I'd never want a non hill capital, even in this case where I expanded in almost all directions I got Carthagenian troops on my doorstep from the west, it also make archers so much better when defending.

Would you mind posting a screenshot of your current situation? I like to see other's maps. Thanks.

 

[andersw]

Would you mind posting a screenshot of your current situation? I like to see other's maps. Thanks.

I'd rather have the thread be about where to settle for anyone to ask and not just the start but also when you have some land, like what part is worth and where do I plop down cities.
I could do some screen shot playthrough, I'm however far from an expert player.

 

[andersw]

Would you mind posting a screenshot of your current situation? I like to see other's maps. Thanks.

Here is how I planned layout in the south (yes some lines are incorrect).
I couldnt find a better hillside to the southwest (orange) this was a bit too far but had to do.
The salt nw of Beijing is actually outside.
I plopped city 4 where the scout is north east of Beijing and city 5 coast nw of Beijing (hill nw of the oasis is coastal).
So all 5 first citys on hills.
This left room for Carthage to the west but mostly on non hill spots, she even built a city next to the salt on inside the orange ring 4 north of the x.
Some of the AI's forward expansions are not just greedy but really bad (yes its still better than vanilla).
I prefer to expand in directions I can defend, I was sort of lucky with not having a big flat desert but also a decent amount of hills.

What could I have done different?
I could have settled orange on the salt at orange north borders to have a more compact early empire.
Others would prefer yellow on the river, I don't want early flat land cities.
It probably also depends on maptype, if you play without barbs? with raging barbs? how cramped do you play ie number of civs on what size/type?
And of course game difficulty.
Religious beliefs also makes a difference both for defending and for connecting resources.

Oooh I miss the ingame tool of modded civ 4 to plot out citys.

 

[pernas]

I don't like settling my first cities so far away.

The spot SW between the 2 salt is really nice, you get both salt in your first ring and can immediately improve. A second city working 2 salt mines is really good.
One west of the spices near your capital and a city somewhere in the cocoa are also fine.

In general I'd try settling closer to the capital and towards carthage looking to take Utique.

 

[andersw]

I don't like settling my first cities so far away.

The spot SW between the 2 salt is really nice, you get both salt in your first ring and can immediately improve. A second city working 2 salt mines is really good.
One west of the spices near your capital and a city somewhere in the cocoa are also fine.

In general I'd try settling closer to the capital and towards carthage looking to take Utique.

Yes and no, drawback is with tighter cities you will need more cities and that takes more happiness in the long run if you like me play with lots or war and conquering land.
Available lands towards Carthage was not very good for settling (became a bit better after I razed some).

Here's an overland map later (yes I suck at diplo and there's currently a lot of wars but thats not what the thread is about).
I have a nice hillside choke city to the south (visible in mini map), had to put down a less optimal flatland city west of Beijing to fill space, Hanghou had to be placed a bit more west due to Portuguese expansions.
Chengdu to the east got into a really nice position.
Razed a few Carthagan cities. Mountain range to the east helps. Carthage (their former capital) is all flatlands.
Citylocations from now on feels less important since I have somewhat of a stable empire with good defensive positions.

 

[Stalker0]

I don't like settling my first cities so far away.

The spot SW between the 2 salt is really nice, you get both salt in your first ring and can immediately improve. A second city working 2 salt mines is really good.
One west of the spices near your capital and a city somewhere in the cocoa are also fine.

The more I play the more I find this true. I used to pick spots for the "perfect ultimate city". But I've realized that because of slower growth towards the late game and the use of specialists, I never work the land anyway. Better to build close to some powerful resource to jump up quickly. By the time I have enough to work all of those scattered out resources I will be utilizing a lot of specialists anyway.