Where to go from here?

[FraterPerdurabo]

So I'm a bit stuck. I feel that this game could be salvaged, but I'm not quite sure as to how to go about this. I'll give a brief overview:
Playing as Koreans, Continents, 60%, Standard, max number of enemies, Emperor.
Victory conditions: Domination, Conquest, Space Race. No town flipping.
Oh and I use the governor (got happyness slider at 10-20%, depending on what I'm doing).
And I automate my workers beyond my core cities.

I started off on what I currently believe to be the bigger of the two continents. I do not yet have everyone's map. To my south were the Romans (quite far away). My goal in the beginning was to go for the Republic slingshot. It failed and I fell behind with tech. To my east were the Chinese. I realised that to my west there was a large pocket of land that the other two wouldn't be able to access easily (NIMBY) so my immediate goal was to get as many workers and settlers to take that. As a result I obviously had to pay a lot of tribute, which wasn't a biggie.

Eventually the Romans and the Chinese went to war. At a certain point, I decided to join in on the feeding frenzy and took over those few Chinese towns which were on 'my' land. The Chinese were eventually eliminated and I was lucky enough to also get two core cities, including Beijing.

So here's the situation:
1) I am currently the leader in total land mass, but as the Romans get their culture going in all of the conquered Chinese cities, this shall no longer be so. I think I have ~18% or so.
2) I'm pretty sure that I'm sharing the continent with the Romans only. They are extremely powerful and their army is vastly superior to mine.
3) I am hopelessly behind with tech. I am currently researching Astronomy and it's taking me ~30 turns. I suspect that the others are probably a few techs off from Industrial Age.
4) As a result of missing the Republic slingshot and skipping Monarchy, I am still in Despotism. Nevertheless, I recently managed to get both (from trading with the Americans and Chinese, both now eliminated) so had a revolution. I cannot decide which one to go for, as both lead to rather poor outcomes (i.e. -~80 gpt so effectively need to have research at 10% of so, 36 turns). Republic seems to lead to the slightly better result.
5) My army is horribly out of date - mainly Swordsmen.
6) The Romans have had their GA. I'm yet to have mine.

Where to go from here, what to do? My immediate concern is the Romans (though they just declared war on someone on the other continent). I feel that if I were somehow able to eliminate / cripple them, I could stage a comeback by simply having such a vast area of land. Switching heavily into macro and infrastructure and going for Space Race, or simply taking the others out one by one.

Or would peace be the way to go? Disband my archaic army for more GPT and then buy techs from AIs for GPT? I'd do this, but I am afraid of the Romans potentially invading me any second (though they are Gracious and I am currently giving them Dyes as tribute)? My infrastructure is pretty decent (all towns have Libraries, many have Marketplaces, currently focusing on Universities, don't have Banking yet).

 

[vmxa]

I think a save would be in order. When I read the first comment about missing Republic slingshot, I got a bad feeling that you did not persue getting it. A top priority is to get out of despotism. Staying in Despotism till late in the game is just making things harder.

I would of course not use gov for anything. To me, if managing workers is too much effort then
C3C is not the game for you. Civ4 or V you can give the task to the AI.

You mentioned paying tribute, to me that is for DG or better not emperor. I guess a one time thing is not a big deal, but more than once and you are feeding.

 

[Raliuven]

Without a save to look at, I would say your biggest problems are your automated workers, use of the governor and your government.

Why are these bad:

1) Automated workers - the AI is basing its decisions off of tile value, not usability. There is no strategy there. It is cold numbers. Also the AI doesn't stack workers. It may eventually improve everything and it may even give you a proper mix of tiles, it just might take until 1000AD. That is not acceptable.

2) Governors - the governor will use clowns for happiness. This is bad in so many ways particularly in the early game. And as a bonus the governor will anticipate your need for a wasteful clown so that the waste can begin a round earlier than if you manage it on your own. How is that for a bonus?

Similar to what vmxa said about workers, if you don't want to manage your cities, play at a lower level or this is not the game for you. There are so many bonuses to managing your cities that emperor level civs should be a walkover.

3) Governments. Basically speaking, Despotism is your biggest enemy. Remember that despotism steals the third shield or gold from any tile that makes three or more shields/gold. This penalty is HUGE. You will have no +3fpt from grasslands. No +3spt from mined hills. You probably won't even be able to work most hills and mountains without +3fpt grasslands to balance them. This means limited city size, wasted tiles in your productive core, etc. And forget science farms. Without irrigate grass you basically get 1 scientist per city without a food bonus nearby.

It also means that you do not gain the benefits of other governments. Such as rushing items with gold rather than whipping citizens to death. If you are a republic it means forgoing the extra +1gpt on any tile is already making +1gpt. Basically it doubles you income in your core cities. As research is a function of your gpt income, it is important to drive up your gpt income so you can research faster and deficit spend.

Also, I don’t know what turn you are on, but you don’t have your coastline mapped? No curraghs searching for new friends? Do you have contact with everyone? If you don’t know everyone that is bad. Even if you don’t want to trade with them, just knowing them will give you a research discount (assuming they already know the tech in question). And if you are going for a spaceship launch then knowing and trading with the AI is a fast ticket to victory. Note: Feeding the AI gold or gpt for tech trades can be dangerous, putting them even further ahead. Be careful about it, but it can be a useful stategy.

Hopeless behind being at Astro and them entering the Industrial age is not horrible. It’s not great but it doesn’t mean the game cannot be salvaged. The AI will waste a lot of time in the IA researching useless techs. You can still get in the game if you move fast enough.

Getting your GA as the Koreans will be tricky, but it will just mean a late GA. It may help close the gap in techs. At any rate, it is good you didn’t have your GA yet as you are still in despotism. I'd say go for Republic if you want to launch a spaceship or Monarchy if you want to war. Usually I would say ‘always republic’ but that may add some problems. Also, at this point, your outdated army will be a strain on your republic. Hard call to make without looking at a save.

 

[vmxa]

Korean UU has lethal bombardment and that can make up for a lot. They can also make a leader.

 

[Cyc]

Without being able to see the save, I would say go Republic and disband your out-dated military into your nearl completed Marketplaces. Don't worry too much about the Romans at this point, just don't piss them off.

Don't use Governors. Each decision you make for each city or town (whatever) is important to the outcome of the game. Govs are just a bad philosophy. I'm not sure if you have your Workers automated to a particular towns or not. If you set them on auto, they will work your core cities if the numbers say they should.

Focus on increasing your research rate. The paths you take to increase it will benefit your whole game. This means your government, disbanding units into MPs, building Harbors in coastal cities that will benefit from them the most first, choosing which tiles to work to get the best gpt, etc.

I don't know if you've got Metallurgy yet. But you need it. The UU need to be on the border with the Romans. You only need a skeleton crew at this point to initiate your GA is an opportunity presents itself. Garrison your borders with the best units. Don't worry about a man in each city.

Not sure what else to say without seeing the save. I wouldn't give up. As long as you don't step in anything, you can still pull this out.

 

[vmxa]

Truth is I cannot recall anyone posting a game where they were in this position at this stage of AI lead and come back from it. The games can almost always be won, but the two things needed would have prevented one from getting in that situation.

The two things needed imo are 1) attention to managing the empire 2) very solid fighting tactics. The second being the most important. You can get the first from feedback or at least a start.

Phase one of item 1 is to evaluate the empire and see what needs to be done. Usually that means selling off some structres, changing some builds and disbands. Getting workers on the prioity tasks and gang them up asap.

The second requires experience at prolonged war and good knowledge of the AI reactions.

 

[Cyc]

Well, good point. But we don't know the year, the total number of Civs (currently and at the start), or realistically "how far back" he is.

He's got total land mass, is going to reduce his military, and focus on research. He's got a Commercial & Scientific Tribe that learning Education and still hasn't hit it's GA. He's got a chance.