Which aspects do you prefer?

[Sonereal]

I'm pretty sure the system from 5 would work quite well also in 4.

It's variable, really. I believe A New Dawn did something like this called "Realistic Culture Expansion" in which expansion took account or rivers and other geological things. It wasn't one-tile at at time, but I think it worked very well for the mod. In a sense, that is CivV expansion in CivIV.

I don't you can buy tiles in CivIV though. I guess if someone wanted one-tile expansion ala CiV in CivIV, it wouldn't require too much in the way of modding. Though, CivIV was designed around the big fat cross expanding at set intervals so it might cause problems or painfully slow expansion.

 

[civnoob13]

Just so people definitely see...
I'm still not exactly sure what we are agreeing on

Any problems with the following?

I'll post in the morning (UK)

1 1UPT vs Infinite UPT
2 Cities can defend themselves vs Cities can't defend
3 Social policies vs civics
4 Science earned by population vs science earned by gold
5 Global Happiness vs Local Health and Local Happiness
6 Religion vs no religion
7 Hex tiles vs Square tiles
8 1 culture tile gain per expansion vs civ IV culture expansion method

 

[The_J]

Moderator Action: Poll added.

 

[civnoob13]

Thanks a lot for adding the poll. And as many predicted, civ 5 is off to a good start. I wan't to start off again with civ 4 anyway, so to those forums I go! And I'll add this poll to my signature for some shameless self advertising.

 

[MoonFlare]

Great poll. Both Civ4 and 5 have great features. They need to be combined and improved. Not just cut from the game because developers weren't smart enough.

 

[civnoob13]

I miss earning science by gold - I was finally starting to really understand the mechanisms when civ V came out. I just think there is so much more control over science in civ 4. In 5 it is very linear with it just being earned by population, but in civ 4 it is yours to control, either with use of the slider or by specifying cities to focus on gold.

(edit) upon playing civ 4 I now realise I've forgotten almost everything)

 

[KungCheops]

I want local and empire wide stability plus local happiness and health.

 

[RD-BH]

I selected Civ4 science, even though ...
... science wasn't commerce dependendent in Civ4.

Interesting results, this poll.

 

[civnoob13]

In what way wasn't it commerce dependent?

 

[wcbarney]

I want local and empire wide stability plus local happiness and health.

Yeah, that's what I would say. Basically, I like everything better about Civ V, except I would prefer the local happiness -- I mean, it's much easier creating Elvises, isn't it, than struggling to get happiness policies. I hated the Civ IV "Stacks of Doom," and the Civ IV warfare model in general: Took too long to get anywhere, and you couldn't choose your defenders. Religion I can accept or not. I liked religion in Civ IV, but don't really miss it in Civ V.

 

[TM Moot]

I love some of the new civ5 features (Social Policies, hexes, city defence, tile expansion), I just regret that some key features are missing (health, (meaningful) trade, religion).

Hopefully, via DLC/patches or XP's, civ5 will eventually include these crucial/historic features whilst also refining some of the newer ones (1upt, global happiness) to make a truly great civ game.

 

[turtlefang]

My votes, and some comments.


1 1UPT vs Infinite UPT
2 Cities can defend themselves vs Cities can't defend
3 Social policies vs civics
4 Science earned by GOLD vs science earned by POPULATION
5 Local Health and Local Happiness vs. Global Happiness
6 No opinion on this one - depends on how implemented (Religion vs no religion)
7 Hex tiles vs Square tiles
8 1 culture tile gain per expansion vs civ IV culture expansion method

On 4 - Population usually doesn't determine science advances in the real world but the amount of resources you can put against a project. Most science advances come from wealthy countries not the ones with the most people.

On 5 - I just think the happiness system is currently broken and forces the player to fight the system, taking away from the enjoyment of the game.

On 6 - Wasn't a big fan of the way it was implemented in Civ4 but it was better than nothing. Religion has been a big driving force in the world so it shouldn't be ignored but it depends on how its implemented.

On a slightly different note, I would like to see 2UPT in cities to help cities defend better. One melee unit and one ranged unit. Right now, I think cities are way too easy to take.

 

[civnoob13]

My votes, and some comments.


1 1UPT vs Infinite UPT
2 Cities can defend themselves vs Cities can't defend
3 Social policies vs civics
4 Science earned by GOLD vs science earned by POPULATION
5 Local Health and Local Happiness vs. Global Happiness
6 No opinion on this one - depends on how implemented (Religion vs no religion)
7 Hex tiles vs Square tiles
8 1 culture tile gain per expansion vs civ IV culture expansion method

On 4 - Population usually doesn't determine science advances in the real world but the amount of resources you can put against a project. Most science advances come from wealthy countries not the ones with the most people.

On 5 - I just think the happiness system is currently broken and forces the player to fight the system, taking away from the enjoyment of the game.

On 6 - Wasn't a big fan of the way it was implemented in Civ4 but it was better than nothing. Religion has been a big driving force in the world so it shouldn't be ignored but it depends on how its implemented.

On a slightly different note, I would like to see 2UPT in cities to help cities defend better. One melee unit and one ranged unit. Right now, I think cities are way too easy to take.

Only if you have a good tech lead. Otherwise I think they're way too hard. Besides, They're far harder than in civ 4 IMHO. But unless I've misunderstood, you haven't actually said what you voted for.

 

[RD-BH]

In what way wasn't it commerce dependent?

I use scientist to generate science.
The science slider is at 0% after writing/library.
I use commerce for espionage, culture, and wealth.
People choose to play with the science slider as high as possible.
This, however, does not make it commerce dependent.

 

[jtb1127]

I am surprised by these results. It seems most of the people who disliked civ v, these of which made up most of the civ v population, have fled back to civ iv.

 

[civnoob13]

I use scientist to generate science.
The science slider is at 0% after writing/library.
I use commerce for espionage, culture, and wealth.
People choose to play with the science slider as high as possible.
This, however, does not make it commerce dependent.

I had no idea you could maintain any sort of respectable research rate, if any at all, doing this. Shows how very little I know about civ 4. Could you go into more detail about this, I am intrigued.

Unless, of course, you go for cultural victories, so you don't really care about techs, get the essentials through trading, and maintain a very slow rate of science through scientists, much like you could theoretically gain science without any population, other than one citizen, by working a GS tile in civ 5?

 

[Polycrates]

I had no idea you could maintain any sort of respectable research rate, if any at all, doing this. Shows how very little I know about civ 4. Could you go into more detail about this, I am intrigued.

The specialist/food economy was a potentially very strong strategy in Civ IV, based around farms rather than cottages, and using specialists as the primary generators of science. With Caste System you could have huge numbers of scientists, giving straightforward turn-by-turn output as well as lots of great scientists, for bulbing deep into the tech tree and then tech trading the new high-level techs aggressively. A lot more nuance that I've forgotten, but that's the basics. Needless to say, it's a pretty advanced-level strategy; and I think it's fair to say that in general, science in Civ IV is overwhelmingly linked to commerce in a way it isn't in civ V.

 

[jdog5000]

Comments on a couple of things:

3 Social policies vs civics

I think Social policies are a big success, they're fun and because you can pick up so many lend themselves to more strategy and different ways to play the game. Plus, they give some more meaning to culture. A big win in my view.

5 Local Health and Local Happiness vs. Global Happiness

This is one of the few where I prefer the prior system. Local happiness makes more sense I think and helps create more of a connection with each individual city. But I do like the idea of a global stability system on top of local happiness, which frankly wouldn't be too different than global happiness but could include a few more factors.

6 Religion vs no religion

There were aspects that I really enjoyed about the religion system, like how it added excitement to the early game and helped created a story or connection with my civ. That I certainly miss. I don't miss the excessive influence it had on diplomacy and the rigid religious blocks which formed.

8 1 culture tile gain per expansion vs civ IV culture expansion method

This is a nice change. In IV you needed one border level pop to get all a city's workable tiles, anything else was to combat other civ's borders or draw in resources. Now, there's more reason to build culture buildings and it feels more natural.

 

[Catastrophe90]

Units per Tile - Civ V

Stack combat was boring as poo poo. Especially the part where Artillery had to go in first.

City Defense - Civ V

I like cities shooting back.

Science Sources - Civ IV

The slider thing was a bit more fun to manipulate than have more people -> invent stuff faster. Once in every while I have to just stop Beaker production completely because I'm an idiot who can't manage my finances properly. That was fun.

Politics - Both

Actually, I would love both Social Policies AND Civics in the same game. But that wasn't an option, so I just went with "I don't care".

Happiness/Health - Civ IV

Civ IV wins by default because its the only one with health. Just kidding. I'd rather have happiness be implemented like Culture, as in being both local and global. Otherwise, I prefer Civ IV's localized values over Civ V's global one. It fits better IMO.

Religion - Eh, don't care

See above.

Tile Shape - Civ V

Hexes look pretty.

Culture - Civ V

I like how culture is now both local and global.

 

[killmeplease]

Civ 5 is better than Civ 4 in all regards, with exception to the AI though.