Which Civ do you want in Civ V?

[cybrxkhan]

Personally I think that saying that Ottomans were equal or possibly more important than the Greeks is a bit of a stretch, but if they were in vanilla Civ I wouldn't complain. Personally I would prefer Arabia and Persia before them, but I think if I had to choose 3 middle eastern civs, Arabia, Persia, and the Ottomans would be them.

 

[climat]

IMO, Turks is better because Ottoman was just a part of their history.
Anyway, I'm definitely for their inclusion (in any form)

 

[Zomgmeister]

why Russian hates us

We don't. I've heard that you have various propaganda about Evil Russian Empire where everyone eats catholic kids for breakfast, but in truth russians just don't care about Poland much or at all. We are neighbors, we share history, some of that was violent; it's wise and productive just to live on without hatred.

I want most Modern age civs that are either joined or miss:
-Canada
-Mexico
-Brazil
-Argentina
-South Africa
-Switzerland
-Norway
-Sweden
-Finland
-Poland (lulz)
-Ukraine
-Something to represent all those 'stans
-Australia

Vast majority of countries you name can't be counted as “Civilizations”. Some of them are countries which share majority of their culture and heritage with another, more famous countries. Not many of them did anything important on global scale. Basically, this is mod-fodder, not fitting for official release. Also, lots of them are european, just imagine map of Earth with all these and inevitable others, like Germany. Ugh, talk about cramped.

And it's definitely Turks, not Ottomans. Calling Turks “Ottomans” is just as wrong as calling USA “Bushites” — that clan ruled for some time, and there was some major historical happenings during that rule, but still. Or, if you don't like this example, try to imagine Persia called “Achaemenid Empire” or “Sassanid Empire”.

 

[Churchill's Hat]

I'm not saying the Turks should be called Ottomans, I'm saying Firaxis probably will call them Ottomans. And I'm for either a Turkish Civ or an Ottoman Civ in vanilla Civ 5, although Turkish would be preferable.

 

[cybrxkhan]

One problem with calling them "Turks" as opposed to "Ottomans" is that "Turks" can also mean a whole swath of other Turkish groups that each had their own distinct and important impact on history, from the Seljuks to the Gokturks to the Timurids to the Uighurs, for example. Regardless though, I'm certain the Turks/Ottomans are definitely in the game by the first expansion, so no worries about them.

 

[azbestor]

I've heard that you have various propaganda about Evil Russian Empire where everyone eats catholic kids for breakfast.

You came uninvited too many times It's natural,that we see Russia as a threat. We can't answer for many idiots.

We don't...but in truth russians just don't care about Poland much or at all. We are neighbors, we share history, some of that was violent; it's wise and productive just to live on without hatred.

Sorry for bit of reorganization.
That would be relief,yet I'm not daring to believe that.Russians are too good politics and conquerors.
Later part is similar to my feeling toward Russia.

Vast majority of countries you name can't be counted as “Civilizations”. Some of them are countries which share majority of their culture and heritage with another, more famous countries. Not many of them did anything important on global scale. Basically, this is mod-fodder, not fitting for official release. Also, lots of them are european, just imagine map of Earth with all these and inevitable others, like Germany. Ugh, talk about cramped.

Point taken. Still eternal "What XXX achieved to be seen as superior to us?" will arise.

 

[Gedemo]

I wish to have Polynesians, Tupis and Inuits. Great examples of the adaptability of mankind.

Areas never covered: pacific, amazonia and polar circle.
Original culture,
UB: houses built on piles, longhouses, igloo
UU: pirogue, jivaro warriors, sleigh

 

[The Almighty dF]

Israel/Hebrew civilization, due to cultural uniqueness and the spiritual impact they had on the world.

If not them, I'd love to see either another Middle Eastern civilization (maybe instead of just Arabia, they could also have Iraq, Jordan, Iran, or even Syria. Hell, I'd take Qatar at this rate... kidding, imagine how dull that'd be) or maybe an African civ we haven't seen before (the Congo seems to be a big fan favorite as far as mods are concerned. Mobutu Sese Seko for Civ5!)

 

[Pan_Mieczyslaw]

Vast majority of countries you name can't be counted as “Civilizations”. Some of them are countries which share majority of their culture and heritage with another, more famous countries. Not many of them did anything important on global scale. Basically, this is mod-fodder, not fitting for official release. Also, lots of them are european, just imagine map of Earth with all these and inevitable others, like Germany. Ugh, talk about cramped.

I think that is reasonable to count countries that pesgores mentioned as civilizations. Following your definition we should exclude from Americans, which probably will not happen...

Three conditions mentioned earlier seem to be best solution, so if civ is space filler, well known or powerful in area/time.
Most of pesgores's list meet one of those requirements.

 

[GoSkins]

I disagree with those making the argument that there is no continuity of Israel and that Israel and Jews are not related.

I would argue that due to cultural and traditional preservation, modern Israeli culture is in many ways similar to ancient Israeli culture. Not to mention the continued presence of Jews in Israel throughout history including middle ages and industrial age. There are no Israeli Holidays, only Jewish Holidays - celebrated in similar fashion by Jews all over the world from Russia to Ethiopia to ancient and modern Israel. The culture of ancient Israel has been preserved through the religion.

So to say that Jews like Oppenheimer, Einstein, Spinoza (influential secular philosopher), and many others have no connection to ancient Israel or were not influenced by Jewish though and culture is ridiculous.

Jews are granted automatic citizenship in Israel. Israeli government actually evacuates Jews from places that are deemed hostile (Yemen, Ethiopia). When the Air France jet was hijacked and brought to Uganda, it wasnt the French who performed the rescue operation. It was Israel. Why? Because Jews were the target of persecution and political violence.

The answer is that both ancient and modern Israel are a Jewish state, governed by Jewish (religious and secular) thought and culture.

Ancient Israel = Modern Israel = Jews

 

[civ_king]

Israel is a rising regional power, precariously perched on a ledge with many wanting to push it off, yet they have survived and becoming stronger, they aren't a regional power YET so they should not be included in core Civ, after they have become a regional power and some time has passed then it is a good time to included them, perhaps Civ X

I vote for no inclusion, when they have proven themselves then we include

The Turks on the other hand, they have proven themselves and as such merit inclusion, I want to see Atatürk, spending one game grinding in the faces of the Greeks, then when victory is near switch sides and drive the Turks off

 

[nzk13]

We've already concluded that Israel won't be added. Move on to something plausible, like the English or whatever.

 

[kochman]

Please change the saying under your name to "Some bitter Jew-boy on Noble."
Just kidding.

 

[antaine]

Celts. I'm tired of having to wait for expansions.

1 - Their presence in Europe predated virutally all others (almost certainly all others that made it in the game), their area of influence at its greatest extent was as large or larger than the Roman Empire

2 - Some customs and language features remain to influence the later cultures that absorbed or displaced them (in some cases this is a simple as place name origins, but in many it runs deeper).

3 - During the dark ages, it was Celts that reconverted the continent of Europe to Christianity and preserved (alone, to a large extent) the knowledge of Western Civilization.

4 - they do have a popular, modern, independent country (Ireland) and another popular country part of the UK (Scotland. Wales, too, but I think Scotland gets more press.)

5 - the only thing they lack is a unified empire, but since culture plays such an important role now I feel that requirement is less important. Oddly enough, it could be argued using this logic that they really didn't belong in vanilla Civ II (where they were) but instead should have been given space in vanilla III and IV (where they weren't).

 

[MrBanana]

The Greeks are easily more important then the Ottomans/Turks. They made the foundation of western society, along with rome.

I'd be fine with just having the 18 civs from Vanilla Civ4, to be honest. The Hebrews have never been a united powerful nation or kingdom compared to almost all the other civs in Civ4.

 

[tirnaog]

The celts!

They sacked Rome!
Host of languages came from them.
And all the other reasons the guy above me gave.

 

[kochman]

Celts. I'm tired of having to wait for expansions.

1 - Their presence in Europe predated virutally all others (almost certainly all others that made it in the game), their area of influence at its greatest extent was as large or larger than the Roman Empire

2 - Some customs and language features remain to influence the later cultures that absorbed or displaced them (in some cases this is a simple as place name origins, but in many it runs deeper).

3 - During the dark ages, it was Celts that reconverted the continent of Europe to Christianity and preserved (alone, to a large extent) the knowledge of Western Civilization.

4 - they do have a popular, modern, independent country (Ireland) and another popular country part of the UK (Scotland. Wales, too, but I think Scotland gets more press.)

5 - the only thing they lack is a unified empire, but since culture plays such an important role now I feel that requirement is less important. Oddly enough, it could be argued using this logic that they really didn't belong in vanilla Civ II (where they were) but instead should have been given space in vanilla III and IV (where they weren't).

OK, because this thread has gotten much to nice again and I am feeling froggy...
1) So what, they did very little with their presence... little lasting impact
2) So what, many cultures can say that (see #1)... they were basically outclassed and forgotten.
3) This is not even close to correct. Have you heard of Byzantine? That is where much info was stored. When it was conquered and the Greeks had a diaspora as a result, it kick started the Renaissance. Re: Christianity... what are you talking about? The Dark Ages were periods of countries becoming Christian for the first time, and the Irish/Celts had little to do with it.
4) So what... a country, and part of another. There are many civs who can make that claim that haven't ever been released (Ukraine for example).
5) Isn't this pretty important to be considered a civilization rather than a culture?

 

[Pangur Bán]

The problem with calling the Ottomans simply Turks is that they aren't the only Turks, nor the only significant Turks. Yes, today a Turk almost always refers to a Turkish-speaking inhabitant of Turkey, which is, yes, the successor of the Ottoman Empire; but that's not the case historically. As lets be honest, the Ottoman Turks were culturally more like the Rum (i.e. the "Byzantines") than the people from central Asia who gave them their language (at least by the modern era).

 

[The Almighty dF]

The problem with calling the Ottomans simply Turks is that they aren't the only Turks, nor the only significant Turks. Yes, today a Turk almost always refers to a Turkish-speaking inhabitant of Turkey, which is, yes, the successor of the Ottoman Empire; but that's not the case historically. As lets be honest, the Ottoman Turks were culturally more like the Rum (i.e. the "Byzantines") than the people from central Asia who gave them their language (at least by the modern era).

It's like calling the British Commonwealth England, I guess.
I figure Ottoman is the best name for it, since when you think of Turkey has a gigantic power, you think Ottomans. Saying Turkey makes you think more along the lines of the modern nation of Turkey, which... isn't honestly all that deserving of inclusion itself (UU: Gary Busey in Valley of the Wolves:Iraq.)

 

[Pangur Bán]

It's like calling the British Commonwealth England, I guess.
I figure Ottoman is the best name for it, since when you think of Turkey has a gigantic power, you think Ottomans. Saying Turkey makes you think more along the lines of the modern nation of Turkey, which... isn't honestly all that deserving of inclusion itself (UU: Gary Busey in Valley of the Wolves:Iraq.)

I wouldn't make that parallel with Britain/England. Think of it as Germans and Germanic. The people who rule the Ottoman Empire at its height are nothing like the Gokturks, the Khazars, the Seljuks, and so on. The people who rule the Ottoman Empire are practically Byzantines who speak Turkish (and eventually Persian), practice Islam, and are more like Europeans than central Asian nomads.