Which Civ in Civ 5 deserves a redo more than any other?

[Snuffleupagus]

Apocalypse:

That's interesting. I didn't really know that. It's always nice when the unit powers in the game can match some kind of real world reasoning. For instance I like the changes to make tanks an open field combat unit with penalties to attack cities.

I think a trick to make these units useful in Civ is that if you use their high movement to chase units down, or flank enemy lines, they become super vulnerable and die. I find it's far more useful to just keep lines together an move forward with ranged units support.

Now, if lancer could move after attack, THAT would make them useful. (they can't right? like I said, I never build them . . . and would feel like an idiot if they had this ability).

But we've gotten off track.

 

[ShahJahanII]

Redcoats were ok - never anything special. It was the dominance of the sea that was to England's advantage. On land, they always had strong competition in France or Prussia. All their traits make sense, they're just not very good.

ETA: Longbows are better than Sipahi. I can't say they're spectacular, but a range of three is great.

even then, the Ottomans are better overall

 

[apocalypse105]

Redcoats were ok - never anything special. It was the dominance of the sea that was to England's advantage. On land, they always had strong competition in France or Prussia. All their traits make sense, they're just not very good.

ETA: Longbows are better than Sipahi. I can't say they're spectacular, but a range of three is great.

Thats why the story of john of arc is so famous that fought against england...

England was a strong nation in the medieval era not only at sea but olso at military having modern archers and good knights

At the time of explorers England was a dominant for in the new world France just couldn't compete with their power and military might there...


They fought world war 1 against the germans with supreme airforce and a well army
In world war 2 They americans and france fought together against the powerfull germany England had actually a strong fighting force together they liberated france ando ther country's

Anyhow... just like ShahJahanII says they are bad ottomans are better they really need a buff or change

 

[NetGear]

Americans are always bad and will always be bad because civ is a game where early advantage exponentially gets better as turn passes on. Problem with America is that its such a young nation that all their significantly unique traits come way too late for this game to care.

Nothing agst america. Its just the nature of this game.

 

[Randall Turner]

Its funny that firaxis dont know history Lancers where cavalry with a lot of armor and a long giant lance to kill infantry They where used to charge lines of infantry But they lack the ability to go head to head against cavalry ..

Whoa, nelly, that's just wrong. The "lancers" they're modeling are along the lines of the Polish lancers in the Napoleonic wars, and yep, they pretty much butchered enemy cav IRL. (Of course they were just better all-around too - only weakness is they're difficult to train, much harder weapon to use than a saber.)

Edit: NetGear, if they're going to include the Americans, they have to balance them. ie, what you're saying is true, their real-life advantages have to be late period, but for balanced gameplay purposes "fudging" a bit is okay.

 

[ColinTH]

I can't stress just how important Englands embarked unit movement is, island hopping is normally tedious but with England it is so much better, for this reason alone England are a very good attacking Island map civ. I personally don't think they need any other kind of boost, just play to their strengths and you are laughing!

 

[Louis XXIV]

The problem is, Archipelago maps kinda weaken Longbows as well. It's hard to win with them. I'm thinking maybe a fractal map might be better. A Ship of the Line on the side and a Longbow either shooting straight ahead or over a water gap might be the best method of offense.

 

[ColinTH]

The problem is, Archipelago maps kinda weaken Longbows as well. It's hard to win with them. I'm thinking maybe a fractal map might be better. A Ship of the Line on the side and a Longbow either shooting straight ahead or over a water gap might be the best method of offense.

Longbows make great defenders of puppeted Cities and are still good versus riflemen, if I am lucky enough to have an archer upgraded to longbowman from a ruins, then I may use it in conjunction with whatever else I have.
The damage is done with triremes and warriors, or even one warrior if it has the amphibious attack bonus! England's extra sea movement seems to be scoffed at by alot of people, but the movement is the key to the logistics of naval warfare. Unfortunately, to make the most of it the game has to be played on Epic or Marathon ( I have often had four or more triremes with double attack whilst still in BC)! As England you can pillage fishing boats with a trireme even when next to the Capital then pull back out to a safe distance.
The extra embarked movement allows us to take out more barbarian huts which means more gold which in turn means more triremes.
We would be very disapointed if we played as Inca without hills/mountains, also as Iroquis without woodland, the same could be said for England without ocean.

 

[aatami]

Germany a bad civ? It can host the largest standing army in the game... And build it the fastest...

Personally, I think England should get another small part to it's UA, and so should the Ottomans (to make them less water-prone).
Polynesia works okay on land, because of the moai statues et cetera, so I think it's okay.

 

[Roxlimn]

Snuffleupagus:

Not to bag on you or anything, but Lancers do indeed have the "move after attack" ability. One of my primary uses for Lancers is to build Anti-Tank infantry that start off with that ability (the normal AT unit does not).

 

[unexplained]

Oddly enough, the best English longbowmen were Welsh.

 

[turtlefang]

Like it or not, the English abilities are great on water maps and poor on maps with limited water or when played by the AI. The AI just doesn't do well on water maps. And the English longbow just doesn't make up for it. I would like to see England get +2 Gold per harbor or maybe +2 gold per seaport in addition to its other current abilities.

And in naval combat against another human player, England rules especially if it gets the +1 mvt wonder in addition to its +2 mvt for naval units. In naval combat, all other things being equal, he who shots first, wins.

American abilities are usually under rated in my opinion. The +1 LOS means a lot to early units from scouts to warriors to settlers. Reality is that settlers can move unsupported due to the +1 LOS and avoid barbs. You find things faster like natural wonders, resources, etc... The ability to buy tiles is situational - sometimes strong, sometimes not. And both UU come late - usually too late to make a difference. I would like to see the minuteman dropped and +2 Gold added to market, bank and stock market over and above the current addition to represent Yankee Capitalism.

The Germans need help but not sure how. I play them fairly often but they are very iffy. You can end up with a large army or no army depending on the number of barb camps and conversions. And you have to walk a tightrope. Too many conversions, and it can destroy your production early in the game. Too few, no rush or no build up. The landsck are great - if you converting barb spearman, they upgrade for about 10 GP or less - and if your building them, they're cheap.

 

[_hero_]

England obviously needs a re-do. Maybe they should add something to their UA like +2 gold for each luxury tile to give that sort of mercantilism feel that England is supposed to have.

Ottomans need a redo.

India needs a redo. Not because they are week but because their UA will never have the intended effect. It was supposed to make them a tall civ, but it still is decent for making them wide even though you get 6 unhappiness per city now. I'd completely scratch the happiness changes with India and give them Caste system. Under caste system each specialist will have a unique additional effect, and regular citizens will consume less food (10%?).

 

[ColinTH]

England obviously needs a re-do. Maybe they should add something to their UA like +2 gold for each luxury tile to give that sort of mercantilism feel that England is supposed to have.

Like I have posted earlier, you guys seem to be ignorant of England's main atribute (embarked movement)! If we play them as the programmers intended they are unequalled even by Denmark!

Ottomans need a redo.

They had a patch redo, and in human hands they are also very good.

India needs a redo. Not because they are week but because their UA will never have the intended effect. It was supposed to make them a tall civ, but it still is decent for making them wide even though you get 6 unhappiness per city now. I'd completely scratch the happiness changes with India and give them Caste system. Under caste system each specialist will have a unique additional effect, and regular citizens will consume less food (10%?).

Whilst we all know about the "bug" and can use it to great effect then I agree with you, but lets face it we shouldn't have a "bug". When the bug has been eradicted then I see nothing wrong with India and their small empire!

EDIT - sorry guys, I just don't see a majorly week empire, they all have their attributes and if used correctly can win you the game!

 

[headcase]

Doesn't England also get +2 visibility on all naval military units? That can be very useful for looking in on other civs if they're near the coast, especially with the speed advantage. Not disagreeing that the UA is still garbage.

 

[_hero_]

Like I have posted earlier, you guys seem to be ignorant of England's main atribute (embarked movement)! If we play them as the programmers intended they are unequalled even by Denmark!

Meh. That extra embarked movement isn't game changing and is nearly worthless on pangea. They still need a redo to make them more fun.

They had a patch redo, and in human hands they are also very good.

Any civ is very good with a skilled player. That doesn't mean there aren't civs relatively weaker then others.

Whilst we all know about the "bug" and can use it to great effect then I agree with you, but lets face it we shouldn't have a "bug". When the bug has been eradicted then I see nothing wrong with India and their small empire!

Except India's UU and UB aren't particularly special. War Elephants are short lived and in some ways worse then chariots (less movement). Mughai Forts are weak unless you go honor, but honor is a policy tree which works better with wide empires than tall ones. If the "bug" is fixed, India will become one of the weakest civs IMO. I'd rather just scratch the whole double/half system and go with caste system, which would be more interesting and make more historical sense too.

EDIT - sorry guys, I just don't see a majorly week empire, they all have their attributes and if used correctly can win you the game!

I don't think anyone was saying that good players can't win with any civ. They were just saying that some civs aren't as strong as others. You might be able to win with England or the Ottomans, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't have been easier if you had Babylon or Russia.

 

[ColinTH]

They were just saying that some civs aren't as strong as others.

Threads like this one, although often well intentioned and sometimes well answered by some posters might just as well be a poll asking "what type of map do you like to play?"
When the ball fully gets rolling England and Turkey, seem to get a right lambasting!

 

[MARDUK80]

England is bad unless your on island type map, the UA should be commerce related something involving ability to make more gold.

It sucks when a certain civ is only good on certain maps, I don't like that. I will admit longbowman is a good uu.

But overall england stinks.

Exactly what I am thinking about. Perhaps England's commerce bonus could be something related to harbors or great people improvements give +2 gold, for example.

 

[Montov]

With a complete redo of England, I hope they can change the leader as well. Lizzy is getting a bit annoying with her voice and catchphrases.

But yeah, Germany needs production bonuses. England more economic bonuses.
A nice extra bonus for America would be a huge amount of gold when liberating. I like bonuses that are situational and kinda force you to explore a different strategy.

 

[RenegadePeon]

American abilities are usually under rated in my opinion. The +1 LOS means a lot to early units from scouts to warriors to settlers. Reality is that settlers can move unsupported due to the +1 LOS and avoid barbs. You find things faster like natural wonders, resources, etc... The ability to buy tiles is situational - sometimes strong, sometimes not. And both UU come late - usually too late to make a difference. I would like to see the minuteman dropped and +2 Gold added to market, bank and stock market over and above the current addition to represent Yankee Capitalism.

I think only military land units get the +1 to sight.