Which Civ we should have before Civilization VI?

Which Civ we need?

  • Timurid

    Votes: 21 3.5%
  • Khmer

    Votes: 27 4.5%
  • Holy Roman Empire

    Votes: 41 6.9%
  • Australia

    Votes: 33 5.5%
  • Gran Colombia

    Votes: 21 3.5%
  • Sumerians

    Votes: 54 9.0%
  • Nepal

    Votes: 11 1.8%
  • Mughal Empire

    Votes: 15 2.5%
  • Hungary

    Votes: 49 8.2%
  • Hittites

    Votes: 36 6.0%
  • Canada

    Votes: 67 11.2%
  • Argentina

    Votes: 11 1.8%
  • Inuit

    Votes: 38 6.4%
  • Sioux

    Votes: 25 4.2%
  • Mali

    Votes: 10 1.7%
  • Kongo

    Votes: 49 8.2%
  • Swali

    Votes: 5 0.8%
  • Other (I purposely not put Israel and Tibet)

    Votes: 85 14.2%

  • Total voters
    598
Plus, much of what you said is either a lie, or misinformed, so I have a hard time believing any of it.

Now you're just being a Troll.

Lester B. Pearson was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for ending the Suez Canal Crisis.

I'm not going to link to defence of all my other "lies".

The first phone call was made form inside Canada. Alexander Graham Bell was born in Scotland but moved to Canada where he invented the phone. The telephone was not invented in Scotland. In order to perfect and commercialize his invention he had to go South. Scotland was not a sufficiently large country to necessitate the invention of the telephone whereas Canada is the width of a continent.

Similarly a Canadian did invent timezones due to the difficulty scheduling trains in a country so wide. It was another Scottish born engineer, you're not even up on Scottish history. I mean if you're going to claim Alexander Bell as a Scot surely you should claim Sandford Fleming.

There is the Canadian contribution to inventing something called "insulin", it's proven useful, or is the Wikipedia full of lies too? I'm surprised you haven't claimed MacLeod, that's a good Scottish name and it is on the Nobel prize for Insulin much to the dismay of Robert Banting not to mention Best...

Fact Canada is the only G7 nation not represented in Civ V. Rome and Venice represent two periods of Italian history, Stalin was in the original Sid Meier's Civilization but I wouldn't hold out much hope for Mussolini making an appearence or James the V of Scotland for the matter.
 
How? I'm genuinely curious
All I can think of is a statue, a carnival and capoeira
None of which (by themselves or combined) has been very impactful on the rest of the world

Not to mention that the statue was built by the French...

A few types of Brazilian music have become dance hits in the US, but having heard it I'd much have preferred that particular cultural influence to remain in Brazil.
 
However the company is all about making money, so they might not do that, but could regarding that they have Lhasa as an independent city-state and not as a part of China.

I understand that they removed Lhasa from the Chinese version of the game - renaming a city-state is very different from removing a civ. It might have been feasible in earlier incarnations of the game, but not in a world with leaderscreens, voice-acted dialogue and unique unit/building graphics that all add development time and expense.
 
I wonder how big of a market Civ V represents in China for people to care whether or not to include Tibet or not. Even nationalist ethnic Chinese diaspora should get over it, if you ask me.

Quite a large one, I suspect, but that's only part of the picture. On top of that they also need to ask "Why Tibet rather than X?" and "can we do something interesting with Tibet?" I suspect that if they can't answer the others particularly well, the controversy is a further disincentive, but if they had a particularly good reason to use Tibet they could go with it.

The question is, what would Tibet add? People seem to want it as a stroke of justice to recognise Tibet, but the historical Tibetan empire has nothing in common with modern Tibet (and certainly nothing in common with Western perceptions of Tibet spread by the Tibetan diaspora and a Dalai Lama whose own moderation is at least partly likely a consequence of seeing the autocratic government he belonged to overthrown) other than ethnicity. Gamewise it would probably be a religion-focused warmonger, so how would it usefully differ from the Celts? Sure, Tibet's a more deserving civ than the Celts (certainly in the Celts' Civ V form), but like it or not the Celts are already there. At the very least it would be militaristic with or without a theocratic focus.

Alexander Graham Bell was a Canadian

He was Scottish; he didn't arrive in Canada until he was 23, and even then most of his actual development work on what became the telephone was done in a lab in Boston. I don't think Canada can claim credit for just happening to be the political territory where foreigners were based when they made breakthroughs. Or, if you do, you have to accept that the invention of time zones (not just standard time) was British since that was where time zones were first proposed (as for which, all I can find about Charles Dowd, the originator of the first time zone concept to be adopted, was that he was based at Saratoga Springs in New York. I don't know his nationality).

Well, I don't think any of these qualify Canada to be a civ. Contributing to WWII is incredible, and well worthy of our unending respect, but, and I feel terrible saying it, it doesn't rank it up there with Rome or England in terms of influence, plus, much of that is exaggeration, to say Canada, single handedly liberated a few countries an outright lie, although they did contribute more than most to the liberation of the Netherlands, that's true.

Canada was also a substantial Allied contingent during and following the Battle of Amiens, one of the decisive final battles (along with the Second Battle of Marne) in WWI.

Niagra falls, is again, a stupid reason for inclusion, as it is natural, should we include Uganda because it has lake Victoria? That has nothing to do with its achievements as a nation.

Well, Niagra is semi-natural and it was presumably Canadian engineers who stabilised it to keep it looking picturesque when it would naturally have eroded rather further. Although personally I'd say it lacks the grandeur of either Iguacu or Victoria Falls, both of which are fully natural.

And despite Iguacu, Brazil still doesn't deserve to be a civ.

All of these examples do rather highlight how much of a stretch it is to justify a Canadian civ, to be sure.

Brazil gets to be a civilization because it is unique in colonial nations for having an actual powerful empire, and for creating its own very unique culture.

From Firaxis' own account, Brazil gets to be a civilization because a lot of Brazilians play the game.

Going to space, again, is unimportant,

Had it been a Canadian design, I'd disagree - but hitching a ride on other projects isn't a headline accomplishment.

Plus, much of what you said is either a lie, or misinformed, so I have a hard time believing any of it.

Please take care with comments like this. I object strongly to unfounded accusations of dishonesty, and I can sympathise with anyone else doing the same. The guy's Canadian - chances are they're taught a version of history that emphasises linking accomplishments to that nation just as every other country's emphasises theirs (look at all the British accounts of the heroic underdog beating the fearsome Spanish Armada ... while carefully neglecting the fact that they did so with a larger fleet with more warships, which were faster and with more firepower than their Spanish counterparts, and which was in an ironic twist of fate largely designed by Philip II of Spain). We don't call it a lie to claim credit for the English for a Spanish-designed fleet; it's surely no different for Canada to claim credit for a Scottish invention.

Similarly a Canadian did invent timezones due to the difficulty scheduling trains in a country so wide. It was another Scottish born engineer, you're not even up on Scottish history. I mean if you're going to claim Alexander Bell as a Scot surely you should claim Sandford Fleming.

According to that article, his proposal was first conceived in 1876. Britain had already instituted standardised time zones (there initially over conflict between times over the much shorter distance between London and Bristol) in 1847. It's true that Fleming proposed global time zones for the first time, but this was an extrapolation from already-established local systems like the British one.
 
I believe it would be fitting to include at least one ancient civ that is now extinct.

Such as the Huns, Assyria, Babylon or Egypt? For all Ramesses' Arabic, the Egyptian civilization of the classical period became extinct - the modern country just occupies a similar territory, and has no ethnic links to classical Egypt.
 
I believe the OP was trying to be diplomatic. Let's also be realistic - should either Tibet or Israel be introduced into the game, the CiV series would suffer a publicity hit (I doubt they'd even be willing to take the risk).
Old Israel would not cause a publicity hit.

I'd love to see the Hittites.
 
Such as the Huns, Assyria, Babylon or Egypt? For all Ramesses' Arabic, the Egyptian civilization of the classical period became extinct - the modern country just occupies a similar territory, and has no ethnic links to classical Egypt.

Nor does classical egypt have any ethno-political links to ancient egypt. Nowhere stays ethnically pure, and sometimes that's ok when certain people decide it is so ;)


I'd still like more ancient empires though, its part of what civ is all about! I'd really love the Harrapa to be the one though, there are plenty of ancient middle eastern civs already and as much as i'd love to see some more eventually, lets get some diversity since there are some fantastic alternatives elsewhere :goodjob:

Also, Chavin and Olmec from the Americas would make for great ancient civs
 
Sumeria, Hittites, Mali, and Sioux are the only ones I can see happening. The rest are just... why? Might as well make an argument for Iceland as a playable civ.

The Timurids are already accounted for by lumping them with The Mongols.
 
Sumeria, Hittites, Mali, and Sioux are the only ones I can see happening. The rest are just... why? Might as well make an argument for Iceland as a playable civ.

Khmer, the largest mainland civ in Southeast Asian history, one of the most populous hot-spots on Earth during its time, just why?

Nepal, the quintessential mountain civ, who still managed to flourish despite being trapped in between three giants: China, India and Southeast Asia, just why?

Canada or Australia, who have very significant fanbases and would provide a good reason to include them based on sheer market value alone, just why?

Yeah, real comparable to Iceland
 
I was brainstorming some ideas with a friend about what attributes a Vietnamese civilization would have. Thought I'd share it with the community and solicit some feedback:

UA: Thang Long "Ascending Dragon" (Note: The Vietnamese Dragon is a water-dwelling serpent, unlike the fire-breathing winged-creature of European lore. This has relevance later in my post.)
Whenever another civilization declares war on Vietnam, a Great General immediately appears in the capital and all workers have the option of being upgraded to the current era's melee unit. These are homages to (a) Vietnam's remarkable history of producing great generals in its struggle to drive off invaders (examples include the famed Trung Sisters, Ngo Quyen, Le Hoan, Ly Thuong Kiet, Tran Hung Dao, Le Loi, Nguyen Hue/Quang Trung, etc.), and (b) its civilian population's participation in resisting foreign invasions.
This unique ability/attribute would be helpful for human builders/turtlers, as well as for the AI to resist aggressive civs.

UI: Marsh tiles and floodplains can be planted by workers with rice fields, a unique bonus resource for the Vietnamese. The rice tile will yield +2 food bonus, the same as a wheat tile with farm, but less than the polder for the Netherlands. However, unlike the polder, rice planting would be available earlier, with Agriculture, which would make the marsh tiles productive earlier.

UB: Water Puppet Theatre. Replaces Opera House. Same +1 Culture and 1 Great Music Slot. But, if built in a city with planted rice, also provides +2 Happiness. This is an homage to the importance of rice in Vietnamese culture, including the development of water puppetry.

The theme of water ties together the UA/UI/UB of a hoped-for Vietnamese civilization. After all, the word for "country" in Vietnamese is "nuoc," which means "water" and underscores the centrality of water to the Vietnamese. (Less frequently used is the compound "dat nuoc," which literally means land-and-water.)

With this combo of UA/UI/UB, the Vietnamese civ would be the first to not have a Unique Unit (unless the worker upgrading to melee unit can be considered a UU). Would that be too boring for most players? Others on this forum have in the past recommended the Fire Lancer as a Vietnamese UU, which I believe would make a fine choice. However, the above UA/UI/UB combo would make the Vietnamese civ stand out more.

Thoughts?
 
Khmer, the largest mainland civ in Southeast Asian history, one of the most populous hot-spots on Earth during its time, just why?

Nepal, the quintessential mountain civ, who still managed to flourish despite being trapped in between three giants: China, India and Southeast Asia, just why?

Canada or Australia, who have very significant fanbases and would provide a good reason to include them based on sheer market value alone, just why?

Yeah, real comparable to Iceland

Heck, you glossed over the best parts! You skipped over how Khmer controlled nearly the whole economy of south asia for a while (if anyone wanted to move anything anywhere, they had to go through or stop in the Khmer), thus they spread their culture and goods an absurd distance. Nepal's mixing of Buddism, Sihkism, Tao, and confusionism revolutionize the religions and spread chinese culture to india, indian culture to china, all while remaining culturally distinct, essentially making them a massive religious railway. It's comments like the iceland one that make me sad I'm into history, for it seems few else are :(.
 
I was brainstorming some ideas with a friend about what attributes a Vietnamese civilization would have. Thought I'd share it with the community and solicit some feedback:

UA: Thang Long "Ascending Dragon" (Note: The Vietnamese Dragon is a water-dwelling serpent, unlike the fire-breathing winged-creature of European lore. This has relevance later in my post.)
Whenever another civilization declares war on Vietnam, a Great General immediately appears in the capital and all workers have the option of being upgraded to the current era's melee unit. These are homages to (a) Vietnam's remarkable history of producing great generals in its struggle to drive off invaders (examples include the famed Trung Sisters, Ngo Quyen, Le Hoan, Ly Thuong Kiet, Tran Hung Dao, Le Loi, Nguyen Hue/Quang Trung, etc.), and (b) its civilian population's participation in resisting foreign invasions.
This unique ability/attribute would be helpful for human builders/turtlers, as well as for the AI to resist aggressive civs.

I suspect it wouldn't be terribly useful. Wars tend to be declared and go on forever - you won't get many GGs that way. Melee units are weaker than ranged, and how often do you have a surplus of workers unless you're out conquering yourself?

I'd go with something closer to:

Vietnamese units generate more points towards Great Generals when defending. The first time a Vietnamese city is attacked by an enemy civ, a free melee land unit is spawned next to the city (this can only happen once per city for any given enemy civ). These units have the distinguishing label "Partisan", gain an attack bonus in friendly territory, and are automatically disbanded if Vietnam is at peace.

UI: Marsh tiles and floodplains can be planted by workers with rice fields, a unique bonus resource for the Vietnamese. The rice tile will yield +2 food bonus, the same as a wheat tile with farm, but less than the polder for the Netherlands. However, unlike the polder, rice planting would be available earlier, with Agriculture, which would make the marsh tiles productive earlier.

Good UI, but rice as a unique for any civ is conceptually bizarre. Considering that marsh has so few resources, and no food resources, it's strange that Firaxis have stubbornly avoided adding it to the game.

UB: Water Puppet Theatre. Replaces Opera House. Same +1 Culture and 1 Great Music Slot. But, if built in a city with planted rice, also provides +2 Happiness. This is an homage to the importance of rice in Vietnamese culture, including the development of water puppetry.

I very much doubt Firaxis would go with a civ without a UU at all.
 
Khmer, the largest mainland civ in Southeast Asian history, one of the most populous hot-spots on Earth during its time, just why?

Nepal, the quintessential mountain civ, who still managed to flourish despite being trapped in between three giants: China, India and Southeast Asia, just why?

Canada or Australia, who have very significant fanbases and would provide a good reason to include them based on sheer market value alone, just why?

Yeah, real comparable to Iceland

Phew, that didn't take long.
 
Everytime another civ declares war on Vietnam they get a Great General?
I can see this being abused in multiplayer heavily.
 
Putting in my two cents.

Australia would work better as a 'new world' civ using Firaxis logic (which is quite dumb, but what we have to work with). The fact that North America is already pretty crowded works strongly against Canada: too much geographic and/or cultural overlap with the Americans, Iroquois and Shoshone. Australia, on the other hand, has a pretty distinct aesthetic that hasn't been seen in the game yet (I can imagine Geoff Knorr going wild with didgeridoos) and fills a big continental-sized hole in their part of the world.

While both countries have quite accomplished (at times quite overbearingly self-congratulatory) martial histories, Australia has UUs that come more naturally to it, due to the prominence in popular imagination of the Anzac and Light Horse legends. You'd be hardpressed to think of a similarly iconic Canadian counterpart. So far all the mods I've seen have used things like Canada Corps, Peacekeeper or 'Stormtrooper', none of which are particularly inspired and evocative or, in the case of the last two, a unique Canadian specialty. The other choices are also less than optimal. The Avro Arrow, that never saw active service, yet alone combat? Voltigeurs, which played a marginal role in 1812? Mounties, which although well-known have always been an unpopular choice due to them being a gendarme?

I'd rather have another Eurasian civ over either, but the case for Australia is much more convincing, imo.
 
Yea when there are dozens of far more interesting civs around the world that could be used for a potential expansion (Including Israel and Tibet even though they won't be used), its kind of silly that people still nominate "civs" like Canada or Australia that are fairly undistinguishable from an already overcrowded European representation

I find your comments racist at best. Using the term "euro-centric" multiple times in a row clearly shows your disdain for white skinned people in general. And if you are one then you bring us all shame. It really should not matter whether there are more civs from one continent than another and eventually it is going to end up that way anyways because some of the best written records in history were kept by europeans (the church namely). Yes civs like japan and korea recorded their own history and china was recording before anyone else even which is why they are represented in the game. Suggesting there are simply too many "european" or white civs in the game is not helpful to this discussion.
 
I find your comments racist at best. Using the term "euro-centric" multiple times in a row clearly shows your disdain for white skinned people in general. And if you are one then you bring us all shame. It really should not matter whether there are more civs from one continent than another and eventually it is going to end up that way anyways because some of the best written records in history were kept by europeans (the church namely). Yes civs like japan and korea recorded their own history and china was recording before anyone else even which is why they are represented in the game. Suggesting there are simply too many "european" or white civs in the game is not helpful to this discussion.

Welcome to the forums ;)
 
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