Which Civs should be added after Conquests?

[JazzToucan]

I'd like to see some more Eastern European civs. Hungary a poll option, is a good example.

Although Austria is in Conquests, I'd like to see more scenarios with some unique civs (that can also be used in the main game) like the Holy Roman Empire or Carolingians.

 

[Mobilize]

What amazes me is how everyone always puts Scotland as a civ rather than Ireland. Is Scotland an independent country? No. Has Scotland really put up a good effort to become an independent country? No. Does Scotland have a distinct independent culture? No. Has Scotland had a civil war? No. Has Scotland even been involved much in Modern warfare? No. Does Scotland have a good economy? No but England does.

Ireland is independent, they have had a civil war, they have a more distinct culture than Scotland, they're independent, they are called the Celtic Tiger because of their extreme economic boom in the 90's, they're independent. Give me more reasons that Scotland deserves a civilization more than Ireland and I'll stop ranting on about Ireland in these threads. Hell I'm not even Irish and I know they're more important than Scotland will ever be.

I also think the Cherokee should be included as well as Mali/Songhai, Ethiopia, Khmer, some Slavik countries, and some more diverse civs.

Since the polls never work for me and they always give me an invalid sessions thingy and I keep on trying it again and it doesn't work until I try it a few days later I can't do much. Argh!

 

[Pangur Bán]

Originally posted by Mobilize
What amazes me is how everyone always puts Scotland as a civ rather than Ireland. Is Scotland an independent country? No. Has Scotland really put up a good effort to become an independent country? No.

That, for me, has no relevance. Scotland was an independent kingdom for the period 843-1707. The whole of Scotland was never subjected to outside rule before the 17th century.

Ireland, unfortunately for it, did not fair so well. Such consideration make the less-than-a-century of Irish independence irrelevant.

Originally posted by Mobilize
No. Does Scotland have a distinct independent culture? No.

Not that the present state of affairs really matters, but Scottish culture is as distinctive/independent as Ireland's - if not more so.

Originally posted by Mobilize
Has Scotland had a civil war? No.

That's nonsense. Scotland has had dozens of civil wars.

Originally posted by Mobilize
Has Scotland even been involved much in Modern warfare? No. Does Scotland have a good economy? No but England does.

I don't see how this affects the argument...

Originally posted by Mobilize
Hell I'm not even Irish and I know they're more important than Scotland will ever be.

Why? Were the reasons above your only ones?

 

[Louis XXIV]

I am Irish, and I don't think they are more important. I also think Ireland and Scotland are covered as part of the Galic/Celtic tribes under the Celts (but that's just an oppinion, certainly not anything to be considerd. I think a distinct culture and achievements outways any ethnic similarities).

BTW, Can anyone give me some information about Mali (besides its location, of course). Such stuff as their history, ideas for civ traits, uu, and capital. I realized I know next to nothing about them.

 

[Mobilize]

I have more reasons. The Scots are descended from the Irish, how about that one? The Scots are actually part of Irish civilization.. unless you are counting the Picts as Scottish which is rather odd.

The Scots had civil wars, but not modern civil wars. Scottish have no history past the early 1700s except for being ruled by the English.

Economy is a big part in the game, and definantly should be another reason for the Irish. Ireland is called the Celtic Tiger because it's a Celtic country which has had an economic boom like the Asian Tigers of Taiwan and Singapore which experienced economic booms.

Oh and one more thing, argh.. how could I have forgotten? If it wasn't for the Irish, all intelligence of the ancient world would have been lost during the Dark Age. Europe would have basically stayed in it's Dark Age for hundreds of more years. If it wasn't for these Irish scholars and the request of them from Charlemagne and other emerging kingdoms during the Dark Age they would have never recovered from such decline of intellect and civilization.

The Scottish didn't do that now did they? However you do get the credit of the Scots greaty helping out with the Enlightment, however, helping out with emerging from the Dark Age was much more important.

 

[Mobilize]

Louis, you should read TETurkhans civilopedia for the Mali/Songhai in his Test of Time mod which is included with PTW, it has some decent information in there.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Originally posted by Mobilize
I have more reasons. The Scots are descended from the Irish, how about that one? The Scots are actually part of Irish civilization.. unless you are counting the Picts as Scottish which is rather odd.

Everyone is descended from somewhere.

Originally posted by Mobilize


The Scots had civil wars, but not modern civil wars. Scottish have no history past the early 1700s except for being ruled by the English.

That's a pretty narrowly focused point of view. Scotland, in fact, for the most part functioned as an independent country until the post-Napoleonic period. Either way though, nations still have histories no matter who rules them.

But, if that's the basis of your argument, then the fact that Ireland was ruled by the English for much longer than Scotland ought to make you choose the Scots

Originally posted by Mobilize

Economy is a big part in the game, and definantly should be another reason for the Irish. Ireland is called the Celtic Tiger because it's a Celtic country which has had an economic boom like the Asian Tigers of Taiwan and Singapore which experienced economic booms.

Ireland's economic boom was only noticable because it had previously been so poor. Scotland's GDP is higher than Ireland's. In the late 19th century, the Scotland's GDP per head was monumental. Times change. Arguments from current affairs shouldn't way much for a game that supposedly covers 4000 years of history.

Oh and one more thing, argh.. how could I have forgotten? If it wasn't for the Irish, all intelligence of the ancient world would have been lost during the Dark Age. Europe would have basically stayed in it's Dark Age for hundreds of more years. If it wasn't for these Irish scholars and the request of them from Charlemagne and other emerging kingdoms during the Dark Age they would have never recovered from such decline of intellect and civilization.

Ah, you've been reading Thomas Cahill. The title of that book offers more than the content. I'm not personally convinced that the Gaels did "save Europe", but they certainly were extremely important.

These "Irish scholars" weren't certainly all Irish. There were probably Scots involved too.

 

[Mobilize]

No, I haven't read Thomas Cahill.. I don't even know who he is. I've just been researching Ireland because I'm doing an Irish Civil War scenario and because I've always been interesting with the Irish because they gained independence against one of the most powerful countries of the world and they were only a short distance away. That fact has always amazed me.

(This is obviously because I one day dream of more independence and rights to Native Americans. Hey, you even know Native American territory are sovereign nations and are only partly owned by the US because of mutual protection. They are administered by their own government and have their own capitals, constitutions, educations, etc. etc. Just my rant. )

I'm not completely against the Scots being a civ. I wish they were like in CTP.. but I think the Irish deserve it a tad bit more. If the Irish are to be included, then the Scots should be to be fair and to be accurate because they share the same ammount of importancy. However I do believe it is Ireland and Scotland, or no Scotland at all.

 

[h4ppy]

Originally posted by calgacus

Anyway, vote and comment...as per usual...and moan about exclusions from the poll.

You forgot Phoenicia. I wouldn't mind the Indus being put it the next game. I don't really mind CTP amount of civs either. (it adds character to the game and if you don't like all of the civs then don't use them)

 

[Mobilize]

CTP was awesome in the inclusion of all those civilizations and nations. It was great seeing all those different city names all over. I'll try to include some of CTP and CTP II's city lists for Calgacus' list. Thanks for giving me the idea h4ppy.

 

[JazzToucan]

I definately think we're getting too specific... although, hey, I'm asking for the Holy Roman Empire.

Civs should be more traditional/tribal like they use to be rather than going with specific nations. However, I wouldn't want to go back and change all of the existing ones.

Bringing in the Scottish or the Irish would be overkill with the Celts already in the game. Who else are the Celts suppose to represent? I understand that they can be viewed as distinct, but are we going to go back and put the Moors in while we have Spain (those groups seem more distinctive to me than the former two).

Another arabic civ would be interesting. Some version of the Slavs would be good, too.

What is Lydia? No Andorra? You might as well stick the Holy See in there, too!

 

[Pangur Bán]

Lydia is the place where currency was invented...it's inside crowded Anatolia.

 

[haggi]

Originally posted by The_Inforcer


We already do have a modern Australian civ already. It's called England.

Best selling book on sale in England today...

"Those were the days, an indepth reflection of the nineteenth century"

 

[Gen]

Voted for: Assyria, Goths, Hungary, Poland, Lithuania, Israel, Songhai, Mali.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Originally posted by JazzToucan
Bringing in the Scottish or the Irish would be overkill with the Celts already in the game. Who else are the Celts suppose to represent?

Well, the leaderhead is Brennus, so it seems certain they're meant to represent also the Celts of northern Italy. Or possibly the Balkan Celts - they too sported at least one leader going by the name (or perhaps title) Brennus.

Other possibilities are the Welsh, the Cornish, the Bretons, the ancient Gauls, the Celtiberians, the Belgae, and the Galataeans.

 

[Portuguese]

Originally posted by calgacus
Indeed...that already happened with Conquests...but that is not the case with the options in the poll

Your opinion is what it is. Since you only recognize metropolis as the territory of a CIV, I even doubt that any colonising civ should be in...
Anyway, I think that your opinion doesn't change the truth, so...

 

[Pangur Bán]

OK Portuguese. Absolutely no idea what your talking about, but thanks for your contribution anyway

 

[The Last Conformist]

West Africa still in the lead, followed by Israel and East Africa.

Khazaria/Other Turkic civ has acquired two votes, while Lydia still has none.

 

[JazzToucan]

Originally posted by The Last Conformist


Well, the leaderhead is Brennus, so it seems certain they're meant to represent also the Celts of northern Italy. Or possibly the Balkan Celts - they too sported at least one leader going by the name (or perhaps title) Brennus.

Other possibilities are the Welsh, the Cornish, the Bretons, the ancient Gauls, the Celtiberians, the Belgae, and the Galataeans.

You forgot the Boston Celtics!