Which era has the most enjoyable naval combat?

[Scaramanga]

Exploring the world with my galleys and looking for a quadrireme kill.

 

[Sostratus]

Exploring the world with my galleys and looking for a quadrireme kill.

Do you feel that galleys are balanced vs quads?
25 vs 25/20 1 tile range.

I'm trying to get a sense of what point in the game people really like naval combat, so i can tune the naval units for a balance mod. The four chunks (early game, renaissance, modern, and late game) really all play very different.

 

[acluewithout]

Everyone seems to gravitate towards frigates and battleships-land bombardment and city capture seems be the prime motivator since sea battles aren't really happening.
What's so awful about the niter req? If coastal players could spam frigates it would be an absolute madhouse. Although the pinch with muskets and bombards at the same time really hurts.

The later game ships don't seem balanced to me at all. But hardly anyone uses them in naval combat. For example, the resourceless Nuke Sub is 85/80, where a missile cruiser is 85/70, and a destroyer is 80. Destroyers have no attack bonus against subs, they can just see them. Why do nuke subs (the counter to naval ranged due to stealthy) have so much defense? Destroyers would beat missile cruisers without a screen as well, and nuke subs would also beat destroyers. It's all quite confusing.

In general the caravel, ironclad, and destroyer are a little weaker than contemporary land units, which probably really hurts them in the city attack dept as well.


That's probably because there are only two early naval units for the first 3 eras of the game: Barbarian Quads churned endlessly out of the barbarian starforge camps, and our poor galleys that stand no chance... How I miss the galleass!

The problem of Niter for Frigates is twofold. First, Frigates and Niter are at very different places in the tech tree, so researching both is a pain.

Second, yes, trying to build Frigates, Muskets and Bombards at the same time is tough. So, you often end up supporting Frigates with obsolete Melee.

Frigates are good for taking Cities. That is part of the appeal. But they are also good for exploring. They have good speed and can take Sea Barbs easily.

Do you feel that galleys are balanced vs quads?
25 vs 25/20 1 tile range.

I'm trying to get a sense of what point in the game people really like naval combat, so i can tune the naval units for a balance mod. The four chunks (early game, renaissance, modern, and late game) really all play very different.

The Melee Naval units seem to just get smashed by the ranged ones, particularly given you can’t heal outside of friendly territory.

I can’t really comment on the balance. I never have naval battles with the AI other than Sea Barbs.

 

[Scaramanga]

Do you feel that galleys are balanced vs quads?
25 vs 25/20 1 tile range.

I'm trying to get a sense of what point in the game people really like naval combat, so i can tune the naval units for a balance mod. The four chunks (early game, renaissance, modern, and late game) really all play very different.

Being able to deal damage without taking damage is advantageous. Other quads can support a quad on defense. Quads also are affected by great admirals whereas galleys are not so that makes up the difference. So I think they're pretty balanced.

 

[Sostratus]

Being able to deal damage without taking damage is advantageous. Other quads can support a quad on defense. Quads also are affected by great admirals whereas galleys are not so that makes up the difference. So I think they're pretty balanced.

I’m actually more concerned that quads completely dominate galleys. I think quads beat them 1v1 pretty handily- despite having a ~20% defense penalty, barbarian quads always gut my early galleys.

But the general idea that naval ranged should be a marine heavy cavalry- very strong, but expensive- is appealing to give late ranged ships like the Battleship and Missile Cruiser a role against submarines on the high seas. Unlike civ5, missile cruisers can’t see subs nor do they have an attack bonus, and nuke subs just wreck everything in the sea while having the best defense (tied with a destroyer!) and no resource cost.

 

[Basajaun]

I love privateers. I unconditionally build at least one or 2 to go out and grab the goody huts in untouched remote islands and help clearing out some barb camps too so that my land scouts survive the ocean journey. Then screw coastal cities with the raid ability, while my caravels and frigates are coming back from exploring the world, and give the final shot to the city. Bonus points to decimating whole land armies with a couple ships while they are en route to fight me on the other side of the sea.

Posterior ships, a lvl 2+ battleship armada feels like a GDR against coastal cities too. + It goes incredibly well to attack/defend disembark points and inland citites from land units with the 3 tile range attack. And then the submarines. Oh dear the submarines, like a shot to the face when you are chilling in your sofa.

I hate that I have to build at least 3 galleys and keep them together on my first trip to the ocean tho. A galley cant kill a quad on its own unless you are japan or the vikings, and coastal barb camps can have easily from 2 to 5 waiting to say hi as soon as you clear the fog of war.

Once you upgrade to caravels you basically 1shot them and can practically solo one of these sailor barb camps with a single naval unit.

Talking about resource usage, im not too much of a fan for the perturn maintenance, especially since its a hit or miss to have those available, and a big proportion of my games those are very scarce, and are just by the capital of some major civ on the other side of the world. Building several harbors and raking in the great admiral points helps with this, as those that gift a ship also gift the appropiate amount per turn to result in a neutral exchange, and you can save a bit by combining some naval units into fleets and armadas, and dominate the seas.
Although, my last 2 games, in large map continents, Ai I didnt even meet yet was voting against great admiral points with all their diplo favor and resulted in 60 turns of 6 harbors just being pretty. Happened with a Cleopatra game that Im playing currently, I have 7 Dye plantations grabbed in my empire, and 9 out of the 9 remaining civs have voted against them, diplo victory last vote style. (While living with my neighbor Alex, and the rest of the world is still unkown to us)