Which Wonders do you build?

I've been playing on Immortal for some time now with some success. Here's my list:

World Wonders--always build or attempt:

  • Great Library
  • Taj Mahal
  • Statue of Liberty
  • Cristo Redentor
  • Eiffel Tower
  • Three Gorges Dam
  • The Kremlin
Of the ones on that list, I only consider the Great Library to be essential to my usual game strategy of researching mid-game military techs (Machinery, Engineering, Guilds) while using Great Scientists to lightbulb the liberalism techs (Philosophy, Paper, Education). As for the rest of the list, I'll usually just shrug and carry on if I'm beat to any of them. But losing the GL makes me have to rethink my game strategy--at the very least, I'll end up switching from Slavery to Caste System for the additional scientist specialists a lot sooner than I would have liked.

I don't bother with most of the early game wonders. Some of them (Stonehenge, Oracle) are on a tech path I don't bother with--I'm busy pursuing military/worker techs instead. Also, I prefer to divert my resources to an invading army for an early rush, which I find pays bigger dividends than any wonder possibly could. However, I will pursue some wonders depending on the situation. To wit:

  • Great Lighthouse: started with Fishing and obtained Sailing early, the map lends itself to lots of coastal cities, there are several other civs with potential coastal trade routes nearby, the capital is coastal with excellent production and several forests for chopping
  • Colossus: obtained Metal Casting early, have lots of seafood tiles in several cities (and inland lakes in coastal cities' fat crosses), have a source of copper
  • The Pentagon: pursuing a late-game domination win
  • The Spiral Minaret/University of Sankore: playing as a spiritual leader for cheap temples and with a source of stone
  • The Great Wall: have a source of stone and obtained Masonry early; map lends itself to lots of barbs (i.e. a northern/southern start with lots of tundra and ice nearby I won't be settling anytime soon, and few/no other civs nearby); I plan on playing peacefully (no one nearby to rush) and don't need the XPs from barbs
  • Rock & Roll, Hollywood, Broadway: need the extra resources for trading; especially helpful for obtaining additional resources for corporations; or I'm going for a cultural victory
National Wonders--always build (and roughly in this order):

  • Heroic Epic
  • National Epic
  • Moai Statues (I prefer to wait and build this when I have stone)
  • Forbidden Palace
  • Oxford University
  • Ironworks
  • West Point
  • Wall Street
 
The reason I didn't have Glib is because I rarely get literature in time to beat the AI, or I'm within 30 turns of getting Scientific Method so ~30 beakers per turn doesn't seem advantageous over a different option by that point (HE/NE). In slower games or if I get lucky with early aesthetics (more AI or smaller maps) I always build.
 
Monarch, Epic

I'll build the pyramids if I'm using a philo leader or ind leader and have stone, and I know I'll settle the specialists (for example, if I were playing Bismark, I might to do that, but not with elizabeth, with her I'd bulb the specialists because I'd be cottage spamming).

I'll build henge if I'm playing a charismatic leader or if I'm planning on founding a religion, for the Great Prophet.

I'll build the hanging gardens if I have stone and/or I'm industrious. The parthenon and Glibrary are great if you have marble and/or industrious.

If I found an early religion and spread it well I'll usually at least think about building the religious wonders.

After that, I find wonders have much less impact on the game. The Kremlin can be powerful, same with Cristo Redentor. If for some reason I have hammers to spare and am not planning on winning via conquest, I might build other wonders, but this is usually not the case, since if I'm gunning for a space win I often need production just as bad as if I'm gunning for a conquest win. The only time this might be the case is if I'm gunning for a cultural win and for some reason am still teching, I might build wonders like Broadway, etc.
 
Diety, and levels beyond comprehension, Random events on, Barbs on, Standard, Fractal

Aesthetics build- Shadowayne/Zeus

ai slow tech to aethetics

this is the superior
 
Emperor

I usually build any wonder that I think I have a good chance of getting...

It usually goes something like this:
'Always':
- Great Library
- Parthenon (if I have marble)
- University of Sankore (if I have stone)

'Always high priority, but not always achievable'
- Pyramids
- Statue of Liberty
- Three Gorge Dam
- Cristo Redentor

'Situational'
- Great Lighthouse
- Colossus

'Almost never'
- The Oracle
- The Great Wall
- Notre dame
- Temple of Artemis
- Apostolic Palace

The Great Library is pretty good, but I don't really think of it as one of the best wonders. I just think it's one of the easiest wonders to get. As troytheface says, the ai is slow to get aethetics. It's the predictability of that gives the player a big advantage in getting all those wonders.

The 'almost never' wonders are mostly rare because I don't tend to get the required techs in time.

As for the rest of them, as I said, I'll just go it if I think I've got a decent chance of getting them.
 
Emperor

I usually build any wonder that I think I have a good chance of getting...

It usually goes something like this:
'Always':
- Great Library
- Parthenon (if I have marble)
- University of Sankore (if I have stone)

'Always high priority, but not always achievable'
- Pyramids
- Statue of Liberty
- Three Gorge Dam
- Cristo Redentor

'Situational'
- Great Lighthouse
- Colossus

'Almost never'
- The Oracle
- The Great Wall
- Notre dame
- Temple of Artemis
- Apostolic Palace

The Great Library is pretty good, but I don't really think of it as one of the best wonders. I just think it's one of the easiest wonders to get. As troytheface says, the ai is slow to get aethetics. It's the predictability of that gives the player a big advantage in getting all those wonders.

The 'almost never' wonders are mostly rare because I don't tend to get the required techs in time.

As for the rest of them, as I said, I'll just go it if I think I've got a decent chance of getting them.


Really? The Oracle is in your 'almost never' category? See...for me the Oracle is an 'often build' simply because of it's potential power and the fact that it is quite cheap. It's a fairly cheap wonder, so you don't need marble or IND to grab it, some forests will do the trick, and it has the potential of grabbing metal casting or something like aesthetics or math, or hereditary rule. Getting metal casting or HR through the oracle is often a major breakthrough, in my experience, and it's one of those wonders I'll build even in a game where I'm not planning on building many wonders at all, like when playing a warmonger like Toku.
 
Really? The Oracle is in your 'almost never' category? See...for me the Oracle is an 'often build' simply because of it's potential power and the fact that it is quite cheap. It's a fairly cheap wonder, so you don't need marble or IND to grab it, some forests will do the trick, and it has the potential of grabbing metal casting or something like aesthetics or math, or hereditary rule. Getting metal casting or HR through the oracle is often a major breakthrough, in my experience, and it's one of those wonders I'll build even in a game where I'm not planning on building many wonders at all, like when playing a warmonger like Toku.
It's not the wonder itself, it's the tech path to it; Mysticism->Med/Poly->Priesthood is quite a diversion when there's all those military/worker techs to get, tile to be improved, barbs to fend off, and potentially, an early rush to achieve. I used to always pursue it on the lower difficulty levels, but I began abandoning it at around Emperor level. Which is not to say that you can't or shouldn't pursue it under the right conditions on Emperor and above, just that it gets trickier to do so.
 
Ill echo GLib as a normal wonder for me as well, though its not always necessary/the best thing to do. Obviously National wonders are tasty (Globe, HE, NE and oxford the main ones).

Ill often try to get SoL, Taj if i get nat off lib, UoS if i can get the AP religion for tasty temples.
 
It's not the wonder itself, it's the tech path to it; Mysticism->Med/Poly->Priesthood is quite a diversion when there's all those military/worker techs to get, tile to be improved, barbs to fend off, and potentially, an early rush to achieve. I used to always pursue it on the lower difficulty levels, but I began abandoning it at around Emperor level. Which is not to say that you can't or shouldn't pursue it under the right conditions on Emperor and above, just that it gets trickier to do so.


Very true, which is why I sometimes do not build it, but those techs are quite cheap compared to the total amount of beakers the Oracle can net.
 
o which wonders do you generally build, regardless of your civ?
@ Emperor - none. Means that all are situational to me. The Great Library is probably the closest one, I try to get it in most of my games (but still, not in every game).
 
No wonder is an always build, though a lot of the national wonders are close. I really like oxford, globe, NE, HE a lot. Wall street is very common if I don't go SP shops and opt corps. National park is a worthy build too oftentimes.

For world wonders, the "strong" ones for me are GLH, TGL, Mids, Oracle, Taj, Kremlin, and Cristo. The AP gets its own category ---> if I build this, I generally just won the game if I so chose.

Gwall can be a high priority on larger maps.

SoL is also situational but powerful when it's good...the only problem is that I usually don't bother with demo if I want to use rep.

I will use TGD if I can't get coal, although I think I'll finally mod reactor meltdowns out so that nuke plants are at least an option.
 
I noticed people just speaks about Pyramids/Representation for specialists.
So, never had happiness trouble?
 
Happiness issues are solved by Monarchy -> HR. Building Mids only for happiness from Rep is not superior :) Though long time ago I used to like Pyramids precisely because of early happiness from Representation. Wonderspamming-Religionchasing strategy does not benefit from HR well :)
 
That's why Pyramids are strong. Not only do you get the tech benefit from representation, but you also get some cheap happiness. I usually have too much to do with my cities to be able to build enough cheap garrisons to keep cities happy, so in general, Rep > HR for happiness for me.

As for wonders, I build what the map tells me to build. Snaky continents/islands => TGL. Stone around => try at GW and/or Pyramids (or stonehenge if I can get the stone up early enough). Marble => GL and depending on whether I can spare the hammers, maybe parthenon or Oracle too (if I need to rex or build the Mass of Axes wonder, then I skip them).
 
SoL is also situational but powerful when it's good...the only problem is that I usually don't bother with demo if I want to use rep.
Sorry, TMIT, I just need to clarify this: by "demo" (democracy), do you mean the Universal Suffrage civic, which is a low priority for you if you're running Representation, thereby making the Democracy tech a low priority, which delays the ability to build the Statue of Liberty for you?

Democracy is not usually a high priority tech for me either, despite the fact that it enables two civics and a very good wonder. I am often able to trade for it with a fairly advanced civ that's at Friendly or even Pleased. However, I will make the tech and wonder a priority if my mid-game situation would benefit from the SoL, i.e. I'm running a specialist economy and I have a substantially large empire spread out over a single continent.
 
Immortal / Epic

-Always

National Epic – I don’t see how some people don’t build this, but it may be possible if you’re not crazy about mid game great people.

Heroic Epic – If you don’t build this and don’t continue to almost constantly build troops out of this city afterwards there is a 99% chance you suck at Civ

Oxford – Do I need to explain how important this is?

National Park - becomes super spy city, is usually a mediocore, cold lumbermill production city before this.

-Usually

Iron Works - I mostly build this for internet and maybe late wonder races.

Maoi – sometimes goes in seafood GPF, sometimes becomes part of a heavy production city

Wall St. – I almost always build this one. In my current game I am state property and may not, that’s the only reason it’s not on the 1st list.

Globe Theater – Have only done the drafting city once, but it ruled when I did it. After I switched out of nationalism (this was in a huge food city) I built wall St. and then had mad merchants. I am probably not utilizing this wonder well enough in most of my games.

-Sometimes*

West Point – I often have mad settled generals in my HE city so it seems pointless. Experience points get diminishing returns when they go high enough and this wonder is expensive.

Pyramids – Obvious game changer.

Great Library (probably I go for this most often) – Obvious game changer.

Great Lighthouse – Some say this is great for isolated starts. I don’t see that. It’s much better when you have foreign routes. Obviously this is not an appropriate wonder for all maps, but when you build it you can REX coastal to kingdom come. Make sure you reveal all the foreign coastal cities you can. Your open boarders will benefit you diplomatically and much more financially than your counterparts. Be ready for the everyone turns to mercantilism possibility – that really hurts, make sure you’re not only trade route dependent by then.

Great Wall – Great spy or 2 is a game changer – it can make the worst economies come back. Great for IMP leaders. The no barbs thing is pretty sweet too – if you establish choke points you don’t have to worry at all about your cities that aren’t near other civs. Neat wonder.

Oracle – My tendencies make me get COL often with this one. Just cause you found a religion doesn’t mean you should convert to it. Sending the free missionary to a sans religion civ's capital can often found religion tension for centuries to come. Really nice with ORG leaders. I like great prophet points too.

-Less than sometimes

Red Cross – kind of pointless but not entirely. If you leave a highly promoted unit unpromoted you can make it medic 1 easy. Could see it used if you have a late blooming production city with a military academy.

Stonehenge – Haven’t done this for a while. May be worth it with Sitting Bull or De Guelle if the map is OK with it.

Parthenon – helps out.

AP – usually beaten to it. Sometimes with a great engineer I’ll rush it. Really really nice with SPI but nice regardless.

Statue of Zeus – Great when I have ivory. Occasionally I'll go for it even if I don't. Good wonder that never goes obsolete.

Sistine Chapel – Mostly for culture victories.

University of Sankore – better with SPI and/or in AP religion and plans to stay in OR.

Swega Papaya – occasionally going to be worth going Free Religion on volatile religion map.

Spiral Miranet – did it once. Often don’t even go for divine right.

Rock & Roll – your civ is now much cooler.

UN – can be tricky. If you don’t have the biggest pop or are the most popular, sometimes it’s better to let someone else build it so you can destroy it if they do anything silly like ask for universal suffrage when you have many specialists.

Christo Redeemer – love it when I can get it.

Eifel Tower – Helps out. Broadcast towers are expensive.

Hollywood – money, resources with trading.

Pentagon – kick ass.


-Not as bad as some say it is but still not good enough to build
Chitchen Itza

-Awesome to take over
Versailles

-Never say never but never gonna happen
Temple of Artemitis – not saying it’s bad but I can’t be bothered.

Angor Wat - Can possibly see this with mids, SPI, AP. I think one time I built it as Saladin in a Maoi, heavy food, shrine city and it worked it out well. I don't bank on this happening again.

*I usually go for 1 or 2 ancient wonders, but they’re not always the same one. Rarely do I not build any, rarely do I build much more than this. Which one I build depends on the map, neighbors, leader traits, etc.

-Note that just because I don’t go for a wonder, doesn’t mean I think it is bad. Statue of Liberty is great but I’m usually teching and doing other things when someone else is teching and going for it. Kremlin can be amazing, but I am doing other things. Also, there are many wonders I used to go for but am constantly getting beaten to on immortal – namely the media wonders along electricity to mass media, I used to often get a monopoly on those and now I usually grab none, sometimes 1.
 
That's why Pyramids are strong. Not only do you get the tech benefit from representation, but you also get some cheap happiness. I usually have too much to do with my cities to be able to build enough cheap garrisons to keep cities happy, so in general, Rep > HR for happiness for me.

As for wonders, I build what the map tells me to build. Snaky continents/islands => TGL. Stone around => try at GW and/or Pyramids (or stonehenge if I can get the stone up early enough). Marble => GL and depending on whether I can spare the hammers, maybe parthenon or Oracle too (if I need to rex or build the Mass of Axes wonder, then I skip them).

I agree with both paragraphs.
 
I will use TGD if I can't get coal, although I think I'll finally mod reactor meltdowns out so that nuke plants are at least an option.

Maybe I’ve just been lucky but I’ve played two games where I built nuclear plants in almost all cities (due to not having coal) and I had only one explosion. It was well worth the risk / cost in my experience.
 
West Point – I often have mad settled generals in my HE city so it seems pointless. Experience points get diminishing returns when they go high enough and this wonder is expensive.
I almost always build West Point, because having units start with at least 2 or even 3 promotions is often very handy. I just don't build it in the HE city anymore, not since Warlords brought Great Generals to the game.

I build WP in another production city. This way the HE city keeps building units, and I get at least two cities capable of producing higher-promoted units. Once I have Military Science I will try to build a Military Academy in this city as well to get 1/2 the effect of the HE.

One other point--I always try to make my military (HE/WP) cities coastal if I can, that way I can use their bonuses for naval units as well.
 
I might build West Point if I'm industrous and have stone and are looking at alot of warfare but otherwise I generally don't think the hammer-investment is worth it.
 
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