While We Wait: Part 2

[Insane_Panda]

In the end, people have different attitudes and playstyles, and you can't really criticize them for having different opinions on what NESing should or should not be. That's why the opportunity to mod, and join or not join those games, is open to everyone.

Thank you. Amen. Hallelujah.

Join what you want to join, or open what you want to open.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Based on my own previous experience, I would just drop trade routes immediately and add a couple ECs, where appropriate, to make up for them. As for colonies, I like my own version which is basically the exact opposite of yours in terms of complication, though I think it simulates their function relatively well (though they are somewhat better suited for Ancient Age colonies than Age of Discovery colonies).

I will look at them.

EDIT: Where might I find them?

 

[Israelite9191]

Here they are. I have included the entire section on dependencies, both colonies and protectorates. I have also included an example of a nation with colonies and a protectorate nation.

Spoiler IsrNES4 Dependencies Rules :

Dependencies:

There are two main kinds of dependencies that can be created or negotiated. A PC can negotiate any of these with an NPC or another PC. NPCes may also enter into these kinds of relationships with each other. Economy is different for dependencies than for independent sates, for info see Economy. The different kinds of dependencies are:

Colony: The nation to which a colony is dependent receives all of the colony's eco points from special cities. Colonies are under your direct control for military and economic matters, but other matters of domestic policy are under the control of the colonial government. Colonists tend to have little to no loyalty to their home country and are much more likely to rebel, but due to little native infrastructure are not likely to succeed. Colonial militias are at the home country’s control, but remain small and inefficient, in the event of a rebellion they revert to the control of the rebel government in an amount determined by the mod based on numerous factors.
Protectorate: The proceeds of all special cities are deducted from the protectorate and given to the parent country. The protectorate’s military is under the command of the home country, but in the event of a rebellion the forces will revert to the rebel government’s control, and normally in higher numbers than colonial militias. A protectorate maintains much of the its independent infrastructure making rebellions more successful. However, since protectorates maintain home rule they are less likely to rebel. Protectorates also have a different, slimmer, template which is as follows:

Nation Name
Capital:
Ruler/Player:
Government:
Religion:
Economy:
Infantry (Training):
Cavalry (Training):
Navy (Training):
Mercenaries (Training)(Duration of Employment):
Culture:
Projects: None
Nation Background:

Spoiler Stats Examples :

Spoiler Nation with Colonies :

Kaan
Capital: Kalakmul
Ruler/Player: King B’olon K’awil / Kal’thzar
Government: Monarchy
Religion: Cult of Kukulcan Mayan Polytheism (large Mayan Polytheism majority, moderate Taíno Polytheism minority, small Zapotec Polytheism minority, small Other minority)
Economy: Growing, 2+4
Centralization: Unitary with Exceptions
Dependencies: Colony of New Maya and the Isle of Youth, Colony of Xamaica, Colony of Myamaimul and the Lucaya Islands
Infantry (Training): 15 thousands (Normal)
Cavalry (Training): None
Navy (Training): 15 ships (Good)
Mercenaries (Training)(Duration of Employment): None
Military/Civilian Leadership: Tolerable/Competent
Education: Illiterate
Age: Late Stone Age
Culture: Kaan is the cosmopolitan, commercial, naval bizzaro of Mutal. They are fully Mayan and the great exporters of Mayan culture, but have likewise absorbed influences from around the gulf.
Confidence: Tolerating
Infrastructure: Tolerable
Projects: None
Nation Background: As the Golden Age of the Mayan Empire came to an end civil war erupted in the heartland. The major sides were: the central government in Chichén Itzá, Kalakmul, and Mutal. It soon became evident that Chichén Itzá would be completely irrelevant in this war. After many bloody years of fighting the Mayan Empire was split in two: in the north of the Yucatán was Kaan, who also inherited the colonial holdings, and in the south the Mutal Empire. Kaan has continued to focus its attention on the Olmec Gulf [Gulf of Mexico], but they must always keep a vigilant eye on affairs in Mesoamerica.

Spoiler Protectorate Nation :

Kent
Capital: Canterbury
Ruler/Player: King Segovax / NPC
Government: Monarchy (Caledonian Protectorate)
Religion: Large Briton Druidism majority (small Other Druidism minority)
Economy: Growing, 2 (-1)
Centralization: Unitary with Exceptions
Infantry (Training): 15 thousands (Tolerable)
Cavalry (Training): None
Navy (Training): 15 ships (Normal)
Mercenaries (Training)(Duration of Employment): None
Culture: Kent is the last real outpost of pure Briton culture with very limited Picitsh, Erin, Breton, and Gallic influences. They see themselves as the preservers of a great heritage and their position as a dependency only another means for preservation.
Projects: None
Nation Background: When Erin encroachment forced the collapse of the Briton Confederation, the eastern kings declared independence. Of these new, small kingdoms, Kent was the most powerful. Quickly absorbing its neighbors, Kent found itself the new target of Erin imperialism. In order to secure independence and the survival of their culture, they accepted the position of a Caledonian dependency. The following Second War of the Isles, resulted in a Caledonian victory, the checking of Erin expansion, and the securing of Cantiaci independence. Kent is now much more naval and extrovert than its Pictish rulers in Perth, which has resulted in an odd situation. Though Kent is the dependency, in many ways it dictates much of Caledonian foreign policy. If this will result in an emergence of Cantiaci independence, or a suppression of this independence by the Pictish overlords, or something else all together, is completely unpredictable.

 

[alex994]

*makes vague references to the comments he made about colonies*

 

[Israelite9191]

You made comments? Where are these comments?

 

[LittleBoots]

So how are things looking with our update, Bird? I actually want the update to be done for more reasons than the update, as I would love to hear that rebuttal

I admit my Popery has died down to a less-than-flagrant level, but I guess not every Pope can be destined for Sainthood, like that mighty tower of faith, Celestine VI. I must also admit I was extraordinarily close to taking back France when you gave it to Darkening, due to my declining performance as il Papa. Ah well, how do they say it there? C'est l'vie? Even so, I do think the way you've engineered the Papal States rules-wise has forced it into a much more realistic position, so well done and so forth.

One of my favourite things about BirdNES is the amount of character development. The House of Verner is brilliant and alex's political intrigues, while somewhat reminiscent of other stories he's written ( no offense), are always enjoyable. And then there's the Polish Imperial Throne, which doesn't need elaboration. All-in-all, one of the best NESes I've played.

 

[alex994]

You made comments? Where are these comments?

About the loyalty of the colonies should they be established/intermixed with settlers from the Homeland, it was over AIM remember?

One of my favourite things about BirdNES is the amount of character development. The House of Verner is brilliant and alex's political intrigues, while somewhat reminiscent of other stories he's written ( no offense), are always enjoyable. And then there's the Polish Imperial Throne, which doesn't need elaboration. All-in-all, one of the best NESes I've played.

What political intrigues... You know, just to flatter my ego, if you actually appreciate/like my stories, you should COMMENT/SAY something about them.

But really, which political intrigue story, if I wrote some, made you reminiscent of what other stories?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Thanks for the links.

**Goes back to updating and peeking here**

 

[Israelite9191]

It certainly is. I really do enjoy watching the Papacy, which I must say you are doing very well Little Boots. Oh, and the phrase is "c'est la vie."

 

[Israelite9191]

About the loyalty of the colonies should they be established/intermixed with settlers from the Homeland, it was over AIM remember?

Ah yes, that. It will be handled in the rules for IsrNES4 II/YosefNES I.

 

[LittleBoots]

It certainly is. I really do enjoy watching the Papacy, which I must say you are doing very well Little Boots.

Why thank you very much. I shall endeavor to bring my wordy diplomacy back up to par then

Oh, and the phrase is "c'est la vie."

I believe I did that once and Panda got on me for not being French enough. Apparently the "la" is not supposed to be entirely on its own, although I must confess ignorance for what this device is called (in Latin it is elesion, yes?). Ah well, I cannot win for losing.

 

[The Strategos]

well its getting a bit late for me.

But at the moment; I'd like to start with something theoretically easier; so medevial, classical age type of stuff.

And the rules, I'd like to go into suffciient detail over giving the mod ample tools to dictate how to get a state to collapse from over-extension etc. Also an ability to get the point accross that wars are expensive, don't result in the massive gains made in NES's.

I felt your military rules were a step in the correct direction, mercs that disappear at the end of the turn, and you modeled wars better, but I'm not sure if that can be attributed to the longer time period for such wars (5 years).

I've been thinking about a medieval ruleset (for no real reason ). As of right now I’m thinking the best way to go is to have a very small, very expensive professional army, the knights, men-at-arms, etc. Once you buy these troops, there is no upkeep unless they fight. However, upkeep for them in war is extraordinarily high, so that nations can only afford to send out a small professional army. These armies are supplemented by levies which cost no upkeep but “disappear” at the end of the turn. High, sustained casualties among levies will result in decreased economy, high, sustained casualties among professional army results in decreased governmental efficiency (because medieval professional armies were drawn from the ruling class). Governmental efficiency would actually be pretty critical, tied in some way to both economy and confidence.

 

[Thlayli]

@Panda: It's really common sense if you think about it.

After reading some medieval histories, I'm starting to think that different nations need their own personalized military rules, depending on government and economic types.

But that's a great overarching system, Strategos.

 

[LittleBoots]

Thlayli, how's that Seraphist overview coming along?

Alex, as for your stories, I will do my best to compliment them next time As for why they remind of your others, I can't quite say [/shrug]

 

[Birdjaguar]

Why thank you very much. I shall endeavor to bring my wordy diplomacy back up to par then

I do like the way the Pope role has been played by you. It has added a lot to the game. I hope Sym D's role can contribute as much in its own way.

 

[Israelite9191]

Why thank you very much. I shall endeavor to bring my wordy diplomacy back up to par then

Please do. Religious diplomacy has always been a favorite of mine (see my own tenure in StKNES5 as the theocratic Israel).

I believe I did that once and Panda got on me for not being French enough. Apparently the "la" is not supposed to be entirely on its own, although I must confess ignorance for what this device is called (in Latin it is elesion, yes?). Ah well, I cannot win for losing.

If Panda did indeed say that, he is horribly wrong. "Le" and "la" may stand appart, but the "l'" is formed in front of a word begining with a vowel, thus "la vie" and "l'idée", for example. When speaking of French the ommission of vowels (as in the l') is generally called "élision", though elesion is an acceptable alternatives. Additionally, French has what is called a liasion where a final "s" that is followed by a vowel forms a /z/ sound, as in "les amies" /lezami/.

 

[Insane_Panda]

I did not say what Little Boots accused me of saying. I did, however, correct das for the improper use of l' with words not starting with a vowel.

Therefore, I am not horribly wrong Israelite was correct, the expression is c'est la vie. Also, c'est would be ce est, but again, as Israelite pointed out, it morphs into c'est due to the fact that the French language will not tolerate guttural stops. There are always, however, exceptions to the rule. French is a language with more exceptions than there are rules.

 

[Israelite9191]

French is a language with more exceptions than there are rules.

I believe that title belongs more appropriately to English.

 

[LittleBoots]

Well, I give up on my foray into the wilderness of French. I apologize for my evil slandering of your name, Panda I'll stick to dead languages, thank you

 

[Israelite9191]

Well, I give up on my foray into the wilderness of French. I apologize for my evil slandering of your name, Panda I'll stick to dead languages, thank you

Ah yes, Latin, the most horrid language I've ever layed eyes on. I really miss the two years I wasted trying to figure it out.