whine, complain, whine

[Jezner]

If all the whiners and anti-whiners got together and had some wine together, I think we all might be able to get along.

 

[drake]

Whatsa matter Iceman, parents not giving you enough attention these days? You are notmakingconstructive criticisms, you are just making an @$$ out of yourselve soyou can get people mad at you and have a smile on your face when you go Jack off.

And you're really winning popularity points with your witty insights as well dl26

 

[Mike C]

Originally posted by Utrecht
And this is certainly a fair statement. What I do get sick of both here and at Apolyton is the too vocal minority that states "XYZ is broken" without any substantial proof and/or justification. The corruption being the most prevelent example

I totally agree

Originally posted by Utrecht
I also do not have sympathy for the spearman vs tank arguments. You can calculate the odds...... (Galleon vs sub..... different story)

Regardless of what you think, there are people who have had it happen to them. Something which is very very wrong.

I also note that combat seems skewed towards the AI.

I need 4 swordsman (3A) to defeat 2 spearman (D2) all the time.
However, my Hoplites (3D) are regularly trounced by chariots and bowman (2A).

I do not have statistical evidence nor will I unless I play and document 100 games worth of combat but it is my objective view that the AI gets combat bonuses I don't.

Originally posted by Utrecht
Resources..... I am actually happy that this turns out the way it does - dirtly little secret the USA was a heavy trading partner with South Afrika during its Apartiet years because they control MANY strategic minerals.

I don't disagree that this is a good feature, the point needs to be made though is that you can get screwed really badly (no early to mid-game resources ANYWHERE close to your territory) does and often occurs. When that happens, what can you do? You can't trade away your tech forever. There is only so much you can do until you are eventually forced to fight and win more land (which you can't do since you have no resources) or trade continually (which you can't keep up with since you have nothing youself). And its not a simple question of saying, oh my starting postition sucks after 10 turns. You can go in for a good 50-70 turns before you realise you are completely screwed with 0 resources available. So you end up wasting a 2 days worth of gaming on a hopless cause.

Originally posted by Utrecht
So what I am saying here is that there does appear to be some bugs that should have been caught - but the rest of the issues fall very much in line with the stated design of Firaxis.

Edit for grammer

Stated Design is good. Intentions of many features were good. Implenentation and testing were lacking.

 

[treadwin]

Wasting 2 days of gameplay ????? hmmmm. . .

Well, there is no strategic resource that blocks every route to victory. So what is the problem.

I am a peaceful builder, but last night I played the Chinese. I had to fight the Japanese early for terratory and generated two leaders, one of which I used for the forbidden palace and the other one I am saving. I haven't had the golden age, or the Chinese UU and I am way ahead. I am thinking of building Sun Tzu's war thing and trying to win early - by conquest. It is nice that the game makes you try new things. I do think though that it plays much better on normal and smaller maps.

Oh, and the name of of my spare Chinese leader . . . Sun Tzu !

 

[Utrecht]

Mike C,

Fair post -

Some clarification regarding the spearmen vs. Tank. What I mean by not having much sympathy is that as an attacker/defender you should have a rough understanding of how often you are going to win/loose based off of the equations stated by Firaxis.

Now this is not to say that I would not agree with you if over the long run, this is not followed - if the house establishes rules, then they sould stick to them.

I have to be honest, I have not seen the scewed combat results - sure I have one of two incidents, but they fall in line with the expected probabilities. I play on regent (poorly) so my argument may not any credibility on higher difficulties.

Resources:

I go into the game making the following assumption: I will be lacking in at least 2 strategic materials and will have to obtain them somehow and plan accordingly. (i.e. have a ready invasion fleet ready/buttering up one of the AI's). My typicall solution is to trade for the desired resource adn built like hell for the 20 turns and then proactively work to obtaining the desired resource.

So overall, I am happy that this is in - but I agree that you could get screwed if you do not have the right item!!!!! I just factor it into to my playing. What I will say is that the AI seems not to want to trade fair.


so in reply, I will agree with the testing and to a certain extent the implementation - balancing seems a touch off. But other than that I am happy - but I will also say that I am no longer the hardcore gamer that I once was - Children keep me from doing this so I am also not poking in the bowels of the engine either because of that I am more laid back on this.

 

[D_L_26]

Originally posted by drake


And you're really winning popularity points with your witty insights as well dl26

I was just having a bad day

 

[Jezner]

Originally posted by D_L_26


I was just having a bad day

Losing a game of Civ can make a bad day turn into a very bad day.

 

[Mike C]

Originally posted by treadwin
Wasting 2 days of gameplay ????? hmmmm. . .

Well, there is no strategic resource that blocks every route to victory. So what is the problem.

I would like to know how you intend to survive with hoplites for an army when your opponent has Musketmen, Cavalry, and Cannons.

The best I can do is trade away a tech to get 20 turns of a resource to try and bulk up my army. But fighting wars with a limited number of units is not a forumla for success.

I am quite serious when I am telling you I have no iron, no horses, no coal, no rubber, no saltpeter anywhere within 2 screens of my territory. Now the Egyptians have decided to end my miserable existence with their army of Cavalry and Riflemen.

I am trying to hold the line with my hoplites since all my pikeman and my 2 musketman died and I have no way of replacing them.

If you have any suggstions though, I am willing to listen.

 

[Mike C]

Originally posted by Utrecht

Resources:

I go into the game making the following assumption: I will be lacking in at least 2 strategic materials and will have to obtain them somehow and plan accordingly. (i.e. have a ready invasion fleet ready/buttering up one of the AI's). My typicall solution is to trade for the desired resource adn built like hell for the 20 turns and then proactively work to obtaining the desired resource.

I cannot trade if I have nothing to trade with. The assumption made is 100% fair. I do that too. But when I lack every single resource needed to field anything better than a bronzed aged army when everyone else has Riflemen and Cavalry... come on.

I have tried trading tech but there is only so much tech I can give away before I fall behind too far to trade with tech anymore.

Now when I ask the Indians for their Iron supply, the laugh at me.

Originally posted by Utrecht

So overall, I am happy that this is in - but I agree that you could get screwed if you do not have the right item!!!!! I just factor it into to my playing. What I will say is that the AI seems not to want to trade fair.

It is not an issue of fair trades. I have nothing left to trade with.

 

[Red October]

Originally posted by Mike C

I am trying to hold the line with my hoplites since all my pikeman and my 2 musketman died and I have no way of replacing them.

If you have any suggstions though, I am willing to listen.

1st option- Try to get some agreements going where you get so much gold per turn for a luxury resource (if you have any extra).
2nd option- Sell one of your cities for gold (last resort).
3rd option- Hit CTRL-Q.

 

[Libertarian]

Mike C

But isn't that just the nature of the beast? I've had games with few or no resources and games where I have practically all of them. Aren't there some parts of the earth that just don't put out a lot in the way of strategic resources? Nations stuck there have to do the best they can. They can't win wars. They have to be good diplomats and get help.

 

[Sparrowhawk]

I have to be honest, I have not seen the scewed combat results - sure I have one of two incidents, but they fall in line with the expected probabilities. I play on regent (poorly) so my argument may not any credibility on higher difficulties.

Utrecht:

Weirdly enough, I found that my game on chieftian was the one where the combat was most skewed AGAINST me! My last game on regent was much more fair (though still suspicious).

 

[aneeshm]

My biggest problm is that I haven't got the game yet