Whitefish, Redfish, Swampfish, Deadfish

Zkribbler

Zkribbler

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There were other concerning details in the contract, like the high rates Whitefish was charging for labor. The company was paying $240 an hour for a general foreman and $227 for a lineman. For some context, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics said first-line supervisors of construction sites make about $43 an hour and construction laborers make about $23 an hour.
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those numbers dont sound right, I know people who work govt contracts and they get more than 23-43 and they dont have to travel to Puerto Rico...course they aint getting 227 either
 
Zkribbler said:
Puerto Rico's highly controversial contract with Trump-adminisration-connected Whitefish Energy has been cancelled.
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Can somebody explain this to me?

Like, what is the administration's power to select a company "worth" when PR can just up and cancel the deal?
Who gets to select a new company now?
If PR has this leverage why would the administration select such an obviously crony company to begin with?
Other than them being stupid, of course, but, you know what i mean; this looks sort of extra stupid with a big helping of pointlessness.
 
Sad. They can't even do Crony Capitalism right....
 
The emphasis on having only two full-time employees that I’ve seen really demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding about the nature of the gig economy, and how it applies to construction in particular. General contractors rarely have many employees because the contemporary trend is to hire contractors as the workers. That’s not unusual or unique in any way.
 
metatron said:
Can somebody explain this to me?
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TLDR version
- PREPA decided it would hire an obsecure electrical company of two people connect with the Trump campaign for a $300 Mil contract
- Now there is arse covering
- Governor decided it looked bad and ordered the PREPA to cancel the contract
- Iam sure you can figure out the rest
 
FriendlyFire said:
TLDR version
- PREPA decided it would hire an obsecure electrical company of two people connect with the Trump campaign for a $300 Mil contract
- Now there is arse covering
- Governor decided it looked bad and ordered the PREPA to cancel the contract
- Iam sure you can figure out the rest
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Additionally, there's probably some sloppy language in the reporting of this story.

The way government contracts usually work is that negotiators are sent in to reach an "agreement." However, this agreement is not legally enforceable. A "contact" is an "agreement" which is legally enforceable. Somewhere there is a board that needs to ratify the agreement. Once the agreement is ratified, it becomes a contract.

Whitefish probably had an agreement but not a contract.
 
BvBPL said:
The emphasis on having only two full-time employees that I’ve seen really demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding about the nature of the gig economy, and how it applies to construction in particular. General contractors rarely have many employees because the contemporary trend is to hire contractors as the workers. That’s not unusual or unique in any way.
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This peculiarity of the construction industry predates the 'gig economy,' too. I remember making this argument re: Keystone pipeline. I didn't support that pipeline, obviously, but the arguments that it would only create a small number of 'permanent' jobs were misleading because construction jobs are never permanent anyway.
 
The emphasis on the two-employee model here is because they're a small company in an isolated region of the United States. They were granted the contract because of their familial ties to the Administration. The problem here is that contract nepotism usually at least has some foundation in qualification. They might give a contract to a close family friend, but this close family friend will at least have some semblance of a connection to a company that is equipped to handle such a project (even if they're scamming you while doing it).

Whitefish did, does, not fit that criteria. Their approach right out the gate was poor and they did, do, not possess any of the necessary traits or industry connections necessary to actually help Puerto Rico in any discernible manner. They are certainly not equipped enough to tackle a $300M contract for an island located well over a thousand miles away.

I think there's a difference between "two employees who have a solid finger on the pulse of the industry" and "just two dudes running a small company in Montana". The latter is the problem.
 
Vincour said:
The emphasis on the two-employee model here is because they're a small company in an isolated region of the United States.
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But this is exactly the point, you cannot say that a contracting company is 'small' by the number of permanent employees it has.

Vincour said:
They were granted the contract because of their familial ties to the Administration. The problem here is that contract nepotism usually at least has some foundation in qualification. They might give a contract to a close family friend, but this close family friend will at least have some semblance of a connection to a company that is equipped to handle such a project (even if they're scamming you while doing it).

Whitefish did, does, not fit that criteria. Their approach right out the gate was poor and they did, do, not possess any of the necessary traits or industry connections necessary to actually help Puerto Rico in any discernible manner. They are certainly not equipped enough to tackle a $300M contract for an island located well over a thousand miles away.

I think there's a difference between "two employees who have a solid finger on the pulse of the industry" and "just two dudes running a small company in Montana". The latter is the problem.
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Oh, don't worry, I'm not trying to claim that this contract is legit. All the stuff you're saying here may well be true (indeed it seems likely to me that it is true and this contract was pure nepotistic corruption). All I'm saying is that the reporting on the issue that focused on "two employees" was probably done in ignorance of how the construction industry usually works.
 
IIRC it was political (they gave his campaign money) ties rather than familial ties. Doesn't change the argument.
 
BvBPL said:
What ties are those?
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I jumped the gun on the term I used. Whitefish is based in the hometown of the US Interior Secretary, Ryan Zinke. They physically know each other, and the deal was struck behind closed doors. So @Lexicus is right, it's not familial. My mistake.

Lexicus said:
But this is exactly the point, you cannot say that a contracting company is 'small' by the number of permanent employees it has.
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2 employees for 2 years is a good metric for 'small' even in a contracting world, I think, primarily because its location and age makes it extremely unlikely that they've handled any projects of serious size or merit.
 
Oho, I didn't know about this Zinke connection. Most unsurprising.

Vincour said:
2 employees for 2 years is a good metric for 'small' even in a contracting world, I think, primarily because its location and age makes it extremely unlikely that they've handled any projects of serious size or merit.
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So upon doing a bit of research I've found that Whitefish Energy is actually a holding company which has a portfolio of companies that do actual electrical work. In light of this it is not even remotely abnormal for it to have only two "official" employees.

It also looks like the ties between the company and Trump administration go deeper than I thought. The guy who owns the fund that owns 51% of the holding company was a big Trump donor; the CEO of the company has personal ties to Zinke (they know each other, and one of Zinke's sons worked on one of the CEO's construction sites).
 
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I'm trying to picture what happened:

PREPA: Wow, our island is a mess. Who can save us?
???: I've heard of this two-person company in Montana.
PREPA: Do they know anything about Puerto Rico?
???: Nothing at all.
PREPA: Sounds great! Get them on the phone!
 
PREPA hired Whitefish because most of the firms doing this work required an immediate down payment or deposit (that PR could not afford). Whitefish did not make that demand.
 
BvBPL said:
PREPA hired Whitefish because most of the firms doing this work required an immediate down payment or deposit (that PR could not afford). Whitefish did not make that demand.
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That's a good story, and may even be partially true, but I'm not sure it meets scrutiny since the deal was organized shadily and the connections are a little too 'in your face' for comfort.

I still hold a personal view that Tesla/associated should be approached for the bulk of this work. They've already demonstrated a willingness to do it at cost/discount due to the PR opportunity and they've already stated they're willing. Forcing Tesla to bid on it is not something I think they'll entertain.
 
BvBPL said:
The emphasis on having only two full-time employees that I’ve seen really demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding about the nature of the gig economy, and how it applies to construction in particular. General contractors rarely have many employees because the contemporary trend is to hire contractors as the workers. That’s not unusual or unique in any way.
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While that may be true, a 2 person company cannot administer contractors for a $300million contract. They simply couldn't handle the scale.
 
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