Who are the worst AI Leaders in the game?

[magicalsushi]

Saladin is difficult: He is a religious fanatic like Isabel or Brennus, but the other ones go straight for their religions and spread them. Although Saladin starts with mysticism he rarely founds Buddhism or Hinduism, but often a later religion. He converts gets isolated and thats it. He is also a bad techer and bad warmonger.
Other weak AIs: Sitting Bull, Mao, Gilgamesch

When I've played against Gilgamesh, he's always managed to conquer a big empire, Mehmed-style.

Saladin has consistently been one of the best AI leaders in my games. He always ends up being worshipped by most other AIs, building lots of wonders, being in the top tier techwise, and controlling a huge empire mostly acquired peacefully. If attacked, he usually ends up taking a few cities and vassalising his aggressor (who will inevitably end up becoming a diplomatic pariah if he does not become Saladin's vassal). Also, he always seems to found Judaism, and for the most part does an acceptable job of spreading it. As far as I can tell, he achieves this by virtue of a very balanced game strategy, rather than the all-or-nothing pure war/pure tech approach of some of the other high-performing leaders.

 

[Hawe Hawe]

Maybe i can't really judge Gilgamesch, because as a BtS Leader he is stil new, and it is from my few experiences with him. I get the feeling he is a bit coded to go the espionage way. It would make sense, regarding his UB, but espionage can be hindering for the AI because they dont use it effectively.
My experiences with Saladin are exactly opposite: I agree, he often founds Judaism, but if other religions are already established, this puts him in diplomatic trouble. And i have never seen him win those resulting religious wars.
But experiences are probably not of a general value, so you might be right as well.
Others: Mao in my opinion has one of the weakest trait combinations possible. Isabella is coded to be absolutely insane as AI. Her high religious modifier is not that problematic. More so it is her aim to found not only one religioon but if possible all. I have often seen her go directly Buddhism, Hinduism and Judaism. That means Madrid is often triple holy city, but she has done nothing else for her development. Even more so: She can't control how her own religions spreads and so she creates those religious enemies among her better developed neighbours.

 

[magicalsushi]

My experiences with Saladin are exactly opposite: I agree, he often founds Judaism, but if other religions are already established, this puts him in diplomatic trouble. And i have never seen him win those resulting religious wars.
But experiences are probably not of a general value, so you might be right as well.

Plenty of people here have had similar experiences with him to yours. There are also people who've had similar experiences to me, but I think I'm the one in the minority. It's worth remembering that, while he's done well in "all of my games", my games take about 60 hours, and I only get to play for about 5 hours a week. "All my games with Saladin" ~= 3.

Isabella is coded to be absolutely insane as AI. Her high religious modifier is not that problematic. More so it is her aim to found not only one religioon but if possible all. I have often seen her go directly Buddhism, Hinduism and Judaism. That means Madrid is often triple holy city, but she has done nothing else for her development. Even more so: She can't control how her own religions spreads and so she creates those religious enemies among her better developed neighbours.

I dunno, I'd say the religious diplomatic modifiers are quite a handicap. Strategically, it's practically irrelevent whether a civ shares your religion or not (especially if you don't even have the holy city), so any AI who primarily bases their diplomatic relations on that factor has a serious handicap. Furthermore, Isabella is programmed to build a smaller-than-average army but to be very fearless about declaring war against a stronger opponent. It's a recipe for trouble. She'll do well occasionally, but the deck is stacked against her, due to her psychotic personality.

 

[DigitalBoy]

Tokugawa has done fairly well for himself in some of my BtS games. With the more aggressive AI, he actually occassionally makes use of his traits in warfare. Saw him wail on Mansa Musa a few times.

On the other hand, Isabella hasn't performed well in a few of my games. It seems like she invests way too much in spreading religion and not enough in expansion/economy/military. I might just be imagining that though.

 

[Diamondeye]

My vote's for Monty. Most of the games I play, he ends up somebody's vassal. Probably because he invests little in tech and a lot in soldiers, then proceeds to use them very stupidly.

That's the Monty I know

Wow, Tokugawa is dominating this poll...

Guess why?

I voted for Toku, Monty, Izzy, Saladin, Wang Kon, Other EDIT: And Peter and Sitting Bull, btw.

May I ask why AIs such as Cyrus, Asoka or the greeks are in the poll instead of someone more plausible, Mansa Musa, per example?

 

[Permanganate]

Toku, Mao, you know the drill.

May I ask why AIs such as Cyrus, Asoka or the greeks are in the poll instead of someone more plausible, Mansa Musa, per example?

Yes, their inclusion is odd, though I wouldn't include Mansa either; in my games he trades well so does well. He also has decent traits, a good UB, and an antirush UU. What are your experiences with him?

 

[Diamondeye]

Yes, their inclusion is odd, though I wouldn't include Mansa either; in my games he trades well so does well. He also has decent traits, a good UB, and an antirush UU. What are your experiences with him?

I agree that I cuold've grabbed a better example, but he trades tech too much and at too lousy ratios. He also often grabs a late religion that gets him no friends at all. I often find him with Taoism. His UB is kinda bunk IMHO, his UU is best for AIs, agreed, and his traits are good (fin is always nice), but have poor synergy. I find Cyrus to be miles better than Mansa Musa, and the greeks aswell for that matter. Also, Mansa hasn't really got the guts for military and/or backstabs unless you're really, really weak. In my opinion.

 

[pi-r8]

Any protective civ, really.

 

[Diamondeye]

Any protective civ, really.

Churchill ranks top-half on my table.

 

[Phalangite]

Wang Kon for me. often grabs an early religion, never spreads it, and builds wonders (eg great wall/stonehenge) before building any cities, and consequently ends up as axe bait for Shaka, Alex or Ragnar. I have heard he can become a powerhouse if left alone later in the game, he just never lasts that long in mine

 

[aronnax]

Tokugawa of course, I always end up killing him off using units 2 generations ahead of his. His isolation and its policies just come back to kick his ass when he is outtech by everyone and left alone to rot and die.

Isabella, She never does anything but pray. Many times I see her leave expansion alone to die as she begins to churn out more missionaries than settlers. Once I had her as a close neighbour, she sent me a missonary at around 2500BC. 20 Turns later when I marched into Buddhist-Jewish Holy city, i find 1 archer, 2 warriors, 1 worker and 2 missioraries. The only thing in Madrid was a temple, a Monastry and a Granary....

 

[Minmaster]

Anyway. Yes, Tokugawa. He once gave me a large city of his in exchange for a spare clam.

yea right, you can only trade cities for cities or gift for free. you can't mix resources and cities for trade. liar...

 

[kcmarkwell]

this is a tough question because ALL are good in given situations...

Set it up on agg AI diety and all are good =)

 

[Florian]

Tokugawa has never been anything special in my games, but I do remember one game where I had a long, bruising, barely-won war with him (the kind where by the time you finally win, another AI is ready to take all the spoils from your Redcoats by killing them with Helicopter Gunships). Montezuma is usually pretty inept too, but my current game has made me revise my overall impression of him. He's vassalized Huyana Capac, is the score leader now in the early 20th century, and is making me scramble with some very nicely done (and unending) amphibious invasions. And he just got Destroyers, so I need to figure out a way to get oil pronto, or it's all over.

Isabella, on the other hand, never does well. And I've seen her more than any other AI, I think, because she ends up in 90% of my games for some reason. She just never has enough troops, or advanced enough troops, to keep declaring war on people like she does.

 

[Minmaster]

dear FIRAXIS:

For Civ V, please do not cripple Japan (like Civ 3 and 4). do you have a deep rooted hate for the Japanese and do not want to see them do well as AI? Its nonsense that they make them an isolationist that remains crippled in most games because they wanted to make them seem realistic. yeah... right...that's why mali is the most scientifically advanced race in the world and mexicans (aztecs) are bloodthirsty warmongers. i understand historical realism, but c'mon this crippling of Japan is getting pretty stupid and old...

trade is without doubt one of the most crucial elements to succeeding in this game. creating a civ that when AI controls pretty much neglects trade is absurd.

 

[m4gill4]

Toku may be a bit foolish, but at least he defends himself. Sitting Bull is a complete putz. I've never seen him win a battle, even against other AI. 75% of the time I see him, he is vassalized to another AI.

 

[Mr. Civtastic]

Other. Ive NEVER seen Lincoln do well, while I have seen Toku do well a couple times (though those times are rare)

 

[solvero]

I have to defend Saladin and Mansa Musa. Mansa Musa is a great researcher, and very often I find him with a strong peaceful empire. In fact when I play with him on the same map, I try not to let him tech to fast, but if I find him on another continent he is almost always the strongest civ there.

Saladin too has a large peaceful empire, and I reckon he does spread his religion. I just hate him because he's a religion fanatic.

 

[Quagga]

Given these poll results and insightful comments, what now? How about we come up with some tweaks that make Tokugawa into a decent leader?

 

[jpinard]

Given these poll results and insightful comments, what now? How about we come up with some tweaks that make Tokugawa into a decent leader?

I think the main problem with Tok is economic. So maybe a special trait that offsets that loss?