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Who else agrees that Civ 5 has been dumbed down?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by KingYosef, Sep 23, 2010.

?

Who else agrees that Civ 5 has been dumbed down?

  1. Yes

    853 vote(s)
    50.7%
  2. No

    677 vote(s)
    40.2%
  3. Undecided

    152 vote(s)
    9.0%
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  1. digitalcraft

    digitalcraft Chieftain

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    Jul 21, 2010
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    Oklahoma
    I think they game would have been great to everyone if they didn't sell it as a direct sequel in the Civ line, but as a sub line, like Civ: Tactics or something. They could make a new game line emphasizing the panzer general style warfare and have the normal line stay the empire simulator, because both are fun in their own ways.
     
  2. duxup

    duxup Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2001
    Messages:
    385
    Way too early to tell. I need a lot more time with the game to get my head wrapped around it before I can say if it was dumbed down.
     
  3. KingYosef

    KingYosef Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
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    Excactly, I'm sitting there while playing like WTF, "where is the entertainment!?"
     
  4. For Nall

    For Nall Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2010
    Messages:
    32
    Devil...

    Wow. Theres no point in wasting my time typing a reply:lol:
     
  5. HamTard

    HamTard Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 12, 2006
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    295
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    Canada
    It's a new game and plays like a new game. Civ IV got bloated for the sake of adding more stuff, even if it was just busy work.
     
  6. HamTard

    HamTard Chieftain

    Joined:
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    I didn't particularly enjoy flipping Civics all the time depending on what I was doing at the moment. I also feel that some leaders being able to flip Civics without revolution kind of defeated the purpose of having different Civics. Why not just make it an upgrade tree if you're going to have all of them available whenever you need them anyways?

    I like the idea of an improvement that gets better the longer it survives without being pillaged. However, later in the game it was a huge pain to defend all your cottages and it just wasn't possible to prevent pillaging. After each war, I'd have to start a ton of cottages from scratch. Since Civ 5 has 1UPT, pillaging would occur even more with invading armies not sticking to 1-2 large stacks. If we still used Hamlets->Cottages, the aftermath of a war would always leave you horribly behind everyone economically with little hope of recovery.

    No sliders means research won't ever slow to a crawl because you had to make some units to defend or prepare to attack. Since tech trading doesn't exist anymore, you can't demand tons of techs to catch up in research from the civ you are dominating, so war would be far too punishing on your research level if it stayed tied to your commerce.

    City-state culture bonuses may be essential to winning Cultural victories because having more cities increases social policy cost. Having cultural city-state allies gives you massive bonus culture without the penalty of having more cities.
     
  7. agoodfella

    agoodfella Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2001
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    USA
    it's an unfair question and will necessarily appeal to those who believe it has...

    even though I do believe its kind of been dumbed down (from the perspective of the legacy of iterations of Civs that have added more depth and complexity, Civ V had certainly reduced depth and complexity)

    still its kind of a loaded question.
     
  8. KingYosef

    KingYosef Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Israel
    As you can see, nearly 1 out of every 2 players who voted, agree or are undecided that Civ 5 has been stupefied. Numbers don't lie for those who think us skeptics are being unreasonable.
     
  9. Stefanskantine

    Stefanskantine Angry Partisan

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2003
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    Location:
    Busan, ROK
    It looks to me that more than 2X as many voters voted no as yes. So the vast majority think it has not been "dumbed down." Perhaps you should research the mathematics tech.
     
  10. GreyIago

    GreyIago Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2010
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    88
    I love how half of your list doesn't even apply to "dumbed down". I also love how the remaining bits actually make things more difficult.

    lol
     
  11. GreyIago

    GreyIago Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2010
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    hahahaha :lol:
     
  12. Flavorable

    Flavorable Chieftain

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    Sep 23, 2010
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    lol, MORE THAN ONE IN FOUR? WHAT A MAJORITY!!

    Heres an idea, KingTroll, why don't we try discussing the depth of both games rather than act thick and believe that numbers dictate the answer?

    Moderator Action: Infracted for flaming. Please be civil.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  13. KingYosef

    KingYosef Chieftain

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    lol, thanks.
     
  14. Savoir10

    Savoir10 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Sydney
    I prefer the mathematical skills. We get 1/4 of the vote so we win. Must be related to G.W. Bush.
     
  15. aziantuntija

    aziantuntija Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 21, 2010
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    Location:
    Finland
    I voted no.

    Civ5 is not dumbed down from civ4 vanilla.
     
  16. Stiefel

    Stiefel Chieftain

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    Sep 27, 2010
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    >Implying that depth = difficulty.
    >Implying that removing customization and manual choice isn't dumbing down.
     
  17. TLF

    TLF Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 16, 2007
    Messages:
    324
    Well, it wasn't alchemy. I thought it was working the people to death.
    It wasn't just the food that disappeared. The people died.
     
  18. Drake L. Dragon

    Drake L. Dragon Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2010
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    And 3/4 people don't believe the game was dumbed down.

    Honestly, the reason that people believe the game is even dumbed down is truly because of the less clogged up screen that Civilization IV had. However, the only thing that happened was that the information was reorganized, not omitted, and there were even some new statistics such as literacy rate. As for the lack of line graphs in-game, then just make them yourself, because the information is still there. In fact, the graphs in Civilization IV weren't even done that accurately anyways, because the independent variable of time was set to a specific interval that I usually didn't want. Sure, the game developers could have brought the graphs back into the game, but then they would have to allow the player to set the x-axis to the time intervals they would want, (Because all graphs depend on the lengths of times that the graphs are set) but, then, even for the people, like myself, who would want a more sophisticated game, it would just feel like I'm doing my homework than playing a game. Other than the graphs, which I have explained why they weren't even good in the first place but do understand as a valid point someone might have about sophistication, I don't necessarily see how the game became less sophisticated.

    What is labeled unsophisticated, like the city-states, just seems to be criticisms over how they were not applied correctly or complaints over how such person didn't like the feature, but such features nevertheless added a level of depth to the game, whether some people liked it or not.
     
  19. GreyIago

    GreyIago Chieftain

    Joined:
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    If something is more difficult and requires more multi-tasking then "move that slider"...

    If something isn't there that provided pure entertainment value...

    If removing an item that upgrades itself over time...

    If separating what used to be one item into several different items requiring unique attention...

    If removing a facet of the game that nearly guarantees long-term allies...

    I could go on? Also, customization...really? I forgot this game couldn't be modded.

    Yes dear God yes a million times. Civ4 is a fully thought out product that is fully customized for nearly any play style after five years AND STILL ISN'T FINISHED. Please compare the vanillas. Think of the children.
     
  20. Stiefel

    Stiefel Chieftain

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    The slider is very realistic and in-depth. If you don't regulate your economy, then you can't very well afford all the resources required for research. If you don't have a regulated economy, then how do you expect to become industrialized?

    Also, since when have long-term alliances taken away depth from the game? It's just another feature that made Civ 4 a great game. Vassal States aren't guarunteed by the way.

    Then again, you probably play Civ 4 on Chieftain mode or some similar level, and are too stupid to comprehend the game's features. Next time, think before you post.

    Moderator Action: Infracted for flaming.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
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