[NFP] Who WON'T change in the April update?

[InsidiousMage]

Yeah, I said "kinda" because it's more of a lateral move that will be far less situational. But also there was no lack for protectorate wars, and I think that buffs/nerfs shouldn't necessarily be viewed in a completely functional light. If a civ loses some of its identity in the process, I think that is also a nerf.

If Civ6 ever gets an oral history or anything like that there needs to be a whole section on Georgia from start to finish because I feel Firaxis has been at a loss about what to do them.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Given the revealed changes so far I image their current bonuses will get a straight buff to like 30% production bonus and 3 times the tourism as well as getting something like bonus tourism from improvements.

I think overall France is fine where they are except Black Queen Catherine should be able to spy on her allies, for flavor.

Since it is an underwhelming building in an underused district, perhaps they could change it to be a replacement Entertainment Complex as opposed to a replacement Arena. Maybe give it something like X% faith based on production cost of military units trained in the city, like Gaul's culture, for a bit of spice - better than a boring +2 faith, anyway. This depends on how much they would want to tinker with assets, though, even if they could repurpose the existing models for this hypothetical district.

I don't think they'd give us 3 unique ECs.
That being said it would be interesting if they gained +1 culture/+1 faith for every unit killed within a certain number of tiles from the building.

If a civ loses some of its identity in the process, I think that is also a nerf.

I kind of feel that way with the Khmer's Prasat. Even though it's new bonuses are good the missionaries granting relics were unique.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

I kind of feel that way with the Khmer's Prasat. Even though it's new bonuses are good the missionaries granting relics were unique.

I am really, really hoping that was just making room for Burma next door. But if not, I definitely agree that it was a flavor nerf. Also, I'm still trying to wrap my head around Khmer as the "population" civ.

If Civ6 ever gets an oral history or anything like that there needs to be a whole section on Georgia from start to finish because I feel Firaxis has been at a loss about what to do them.

A long, tragic epic I'm sure. I love the potential Georgia represents but it really did make clear that some of these axes they tried to differentiate civs on (like city-state suze and casus belli) really needed a lot more balancing to be viable strategies. (To which I say, just buff the hell out of those civs. If we can have broken Civ's like Colombia, Ethiopia, Byzantium, Babylon, Portugal, what's wrong with breaking Georgia? WHY CAN'T I JUST HAVE THIS ONE BROKEN GEORGIA FIRAXIS?).

 

[Menocchio]

Three of one district type is a lot, true, but I think it isn't so bad if unique districts of relatively less-built types (Encampment, Harbour, Entertainment Complex) are over-represented. These districts often need a special incentive to be built, and the EC perhaps most of all even after its buffs, and half cost is a good way of accomplishing that.

I do prefer unique districts over buildings, though; they have so much more presence. In an ideal world, each civilisation would have a unique district with unique buildings within it (and unique icons without need for a mod...), but that is something for the next iteration, only dreaming for now.

 

[Luxerne]

I think overall France is fine where they are except Black Queen Catherine should be able to spy on her allies, for flavor.

I'd argue that all civs should be able to spy on allies, but with a massive penalty to success rate, major increases to the kill/capture rate, huge grievances on failure/capture, and the ability to trigger a betrayal emergency if found out.

De Medici, then, could have the ability to mitigate the effect of these penalties--potentially completely ignoring them. Or maybe not the grievances/emergency... but maybe her allies all expect her to spy on them regardless, so they don't take it too much to heart.

 

[slavaskii]

I don’t see Germany changing at all tbh. A lot of the vanilla civs have specialized abilities that fulfill a necessary purpose; in a game built all around districts, a civ that gets an extra district is just a no-brainer.

I don’t think there’s any argument of Germany being underpowered, but I also wouldn’t say they’re overpowered either. They used to be strong because production was the real bottleneck for science victories, but I don’t really believe that anymore. There’s multiple ways you can purchase a spaceport, rush parts, etc; the real challenge is teching to the end quickly. I think Germany’s a strong civ, but they’re balanced, fill a clear gap, and won’t change.

 

[bengalryan9]

My thread about who wouldn't change seems to have somewhat turned into a thread suggesting changes...

I don’t see Germany changing at all tbh. A lot of the vanilla civs have specialized abilities that fulfill a necessary purpose; in a game built all around districts, a civ that gets an extra district is just a no-brainer.

I don’t think there’s any argument of Germany being underpowered, but I also wouldn’t say they’re overpowered either. They used to be strong because production was the real bottleneck for science victories, but I don’t really believe that anymore. There’s multiple ways you can purchase a spaceport, rush parts, etc; the real challenge is teching to the end quickly. I think Germany’s a strong civ, but they’re balanced, fill a clear gap, and won’t change.

Germany is one civ that came to mind for me when I thought about it as well. While I personally don't care for them they seem pretty well rounded to me. I think a lot of people would rather have an earlier UU, but I don't particularly have a problem with that.

Rome is another civ I think is in a pretty good place. Good abilities, strong UU, decent UD. No really issues with their setup IMO.

 

[Datgingah]

For Base Game; Rome/Greece/Russia/Germany are base game civs that still hold up really well in the current meta (though among those Greece is most likely to get a buff imo). I would say England - but it wouldn't really be a civ 6 expansion without a massive retooling of their abilities. I think America will remain unchanged (both), as they were updated recently.

For the DLC; Australia and Cyrus are also very strong and I doubt they would be buffed. Aztec might have just their building improved but they're otherwise good.

For R&F; Zulu? The rest could all use some updates.

For G&S; Hungary, Maori, Sweden, and Ottoman.

As for the NFP, if they buff any of them it should be the maya - they badly need it (though i concede none may be buffed).

 

[Kupe Navigator]

I don't mimd Maya buffs... BUT I wouldn't hold my breath for it... about 30% of a chance I'd say.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Babylon just getting reworked generally because the design is just so bad

Er what?? Babylon are one of the most beautifully designed, unique Civs - I really hope they don't touch them!

 

[OmegaDestroyer]

I don't see any of the NFP civs, France, England, America, Egypt, Sumeria, or the Maori being changed.

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

Hmmm... if I were to place my bets on who's going to stay the same after the patch, it'd probably be this:

Gitarja, Harald, Suleiman, Mansa Musa, Kristina, Pachacuti, Saladin, Shaka, Barbarossa, Alexnder, Amanitore

They have all survived multiple meta transitions well, or their designs are already airtight.

 

[goatdeer]

I don't see any of the NFP civs, France, England, America, Egypt, Sumeria, or the Maori being changed.

Why, if I may ask? To me, egypt and sumeria in particular need a good buff. Maybe not so much a buff in terms of power, rather in terms of fun to play.

 

[Mr. Salt]

I'd say there probably isn't a single R&F civ we can rely on staying the same unless it's the Cree or possibly Mongolia. Their designs feel structured and airtight, whereas the Netherlands for example are a disaster with a billion loose ends. Scotland and Korea badly need it too, and we know Georgia and the Mapuche are both getting it.

For base-game civs, given the importance of Faith in winning Culture nowadays, I'd say it's likely that Kongo gets a slight change. Sumer could also use some changes.

GS and the various disparate DLC are probably safe, given that Khmer and Canada are getting buffs.

 

[IvoryPavane]

I think we will see NFP changes, just based on the principle that we have already seen an NFP nerf on Gran Columbia (and let’s be honest, they aren’t even the strongest in the season...)

also, they specifically requested feedback on each and Maya got a lot of “oh they are super interesting but they just need a little something something”, so I’m expecting them to see some tweaks.

I don’t see them making any changes to Nubia, Germany, Ottomans, Maori, Aztecs.

I think we will see very slight changes to GS civs (as an example, Phoenicia could do with reducing the cost to switch capital)

 

[OmegaDestroyer]

Why, if I may ask? To me, egypt and sumeria in particular need a good buff. Maybe not so much a buff in terms of power, rather in terms of fun to play.

Egypt was recently buffed, so I don't see it getting anything new. Sumeria has always been a strong civ and I've never really noticed anyone calling it dull to play. The King of Dullness is unquestionably Korea and I am looking forward to seeing how the devs can turn around that snore fest.

RE: Phoenicia

Agreed as to relocating the capital. I don't think I've ever used the ability given it's absurdly high production cost or really even having a need to use it.

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

The really bland ones are obvious candidates, or those without a clear direction or being weak at what they are supposedly strong at:

Some candidates on that criteria:
Dutch (adjacency from rivers is really dull, and somewhat weak. UI is meh in the grand scheme of things)
Inca (no real bias towards any win condition, except maybe science or religion since he starts with many mountains. Gets big cities, but that's a really bland gimmick trait. People who love yield porn might like it, but yield porn isn't necessarily great on it's own, and the civ is rather weak on the whole)
Mapuche (the minus loyalty is just too weak for a domination oriented civ, and they are probably the weakest of a lot of weak domination civs. The ability hardly if ever matters, and their UI is pretty bland).

 

[IvoryPavane]

The adjacencies from rivers is not weak in the slightest. With proper placement, you can make some insanely strong campuses, theatre squares and industrial zones. I think the insane (and dull) power creep of NFP has warped perceptions somewhat of what good is. It’s a flexible, always useful ability. Radio Oranje on the other hand...

re: re: Phoenicia - the cost is somewhat prohibitive but it’s always worth doing once because you can increase the growth, loyalty, production and gold of your starting empire by 10-25% depending on the slotted card and that’s very powerful. (The GPT alone for me is usually 300-500)

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

The adjacencies from rivers is not weak in the slightest. With proper placement, you can make some insanely strong campuses, theatre squares and industrial zones. I think the insane (and dull) power creep of NFP has warped perceptions somewhat of what good is. It’s a flexible, always useful ability. Radio Oranje on the other hand...

Theoretically you can, but in practice it doesn't always hold up.
It also confines you to settle near large sections of river, and I generally dislike being dictated by terrain features on where I settle (the bias may give you a 3 tile stretch of river if you're unlucky, with no real expansion settlement spaces nearby).
I've heard talk about the "insanely strong campuses", but I hardly if ever see them from the Netherlands.
Sure, if you get a stretch of river nearby some mountains that happen to form a sort of cove, absolutely, but it just doesn't happen that often or consistently.

That's however besides the point:
I'm not saying it is weak in this case, my main problem is just that it's dull.
Simple district adjancency from rivers? Whoop dee doo...

 

[konokoni]

I hope they don't change Mali, they have a very unique play style & I would hate to see that changed. I'm not sure how you would change things without making them more "generic."

Indonesia probably doesn't need any changes. I consider them an ideal of balance in Civ VI: fun, with some useful abilities, but not blatantly overpowered.

I don't think they'll adjust America since they just "tweaked" them with the inclusion of Rough Rider Teddy.

Egypt was recently buffed, so I don't see it getting anything new. Sumeria has always been a strong civ and I've never really noticed anyone calling it dull to play. The King of Dullness is unquestionably Korea and I am looking forward to seeing how the devs can turn around that snore fest.

I (respectfully) hope you're wrong about Egypt, I like them a lot but I think they could use a little more "oomph" in their kit. Agree on Korea though, I recently finished a game with them and there's just not a lot going on. Seowons are poorly designed IMO: no thought required to get the bonus, plus the annoyance of having to avoid building other districts around them. Not that interesting to me.