[NFP] Who WON'T change in the April update?

[Flactine]

all of NFP civs.

In steamDB they still have update.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

In steamDB they still have update.

what is SteamDB?

 

[Flactine]

what is SteamDB?

https://steamdb.info/app/289070/dlc/

 

[greenOak]

I prefer most of these so called "boring" civs. I much prefer civs whose bonuses can be applied to many different playstyles than ones that are blatantly designed to push you toward one specific strategy.

For example, I find Rome far more interesting to play than Mali.

 

[JhGf_123]

There's, what, 55 leaders in the game, right? So 1/3 means roughly 18 are staying the same.

My two pence for who they are:

Rome, Greece, Cree, Germany: best Civs for beginners. Nothing game-breakingly good, but nothing bad either. We need Civs like these and I think Firaxis will leave them be. I would include Japan too, but I think the Samurai will be become a replacement for the Man-at-arms and that's technically a 'change'.

America (x2): as pointed out, they've been changed/buffed recently, and they're currently in a good place.

Ottomans, Mali, Maori, Hungary, Inca: these ones from GS manage to blend strength with unique flavour, and I don't see any reason to change them. Possibly also include Phoenicia, though I wouldn't be surprised if Firaxis choose to reduce the production cost of the 'change capital' project.

Gran Colombia, Byzantines, Vietnam, Gaul, Ethiopia: these are the strong and flavourful NFP ones, which I can't see Firaxis changing. Personally I would include Babylon here (it's good to have super-odd game mechanics), but I could also see Firaxis giving into the pressure from certain fans demanding that Babylon be reworked.

Indonesia, Persia, Nubia: I don't think anyone has ever complained about their design or said they're weak, so Firaxis will probably take that as a good signal.

Australia: I don't know why, I'm just convinced they won't touch Australia.

That's 20 Civs/leaders who I reckon can easily be left alone. For a lot of the 'changes', however, I reckon that they'll be very minute: I get the sense that they showed us the big changes already in the reveal video. Think along the lines of '+1 great person point' to a district/unique building or '+1 amenity' etc.

 

[Linklite]

There's, what, 55 leaders in the game, right? So 1/3 means roughly 18 are staying the same.

They said civs, of which there either 50 or 58 (depending on if you count only named civs such as English, etc, or what the game counts as a civ, such as Engleanor, Freelance, etc), so 17 or 19 respectively. Doesn't really affect what you're saying, I'm just being pedantic

 

[aieeegrunt]

With regards to Religious Settlements, the developers have specifically said that some pantheons are better than others, intentionally: it's an incentive to try to get enough faith to secure the first pantheon and have your pick. The problem is less with pantheon balance and more with the randomness of early-game faith.

EVERYTHING about the crucial early game is way too RNG

I send my first scout north first and find a natural wonder and three city states first.

If I had sent the scout south somebody else gets all those bonuses and I get barbarians instead

 

[Victoria]

If they don’t change Victoria they will be breaking with tradition.
How about every city they capture makes a redcoat.

 

[DavidPBacon]

[/QUOTE]
That kind of feels like too much change personally.
I do think under the Amazon ability Brazil should be able to build lumbermills on rainforest faster and gain +1 science for unimproved rainforest tiles.[/QUOTE]
My problem with Amazon is that it remarks the stereotype of Brazil being a big jungle. Brazil is actually a huge farm, in colonial times it was the biggest producer of sugar for the longgest tiem, then we were one of the biggest gold mines and diamond mines in the world, then came coffee. The trade routes based on plantantion and mines would represent that. Plus, we are one of the biggest countries in the world, bigger than continental USA(minus Alaska, I mean), and this is partially because of the bandeirantes, that explored and claimed huge chunks of the territory. It´s way more significant than the Minas Gerais, in our history. In modern times, we had one of the fastest developments in history, up to the 70s, flipping from a rural country to a urban and industrial one, in about 40 years, wich back then was kind of fast. Hence Getulio Vargas and development.

"Things that have received a lot of discussion here that should be changed, but probably will not:

Oil being used by both Tanks and Infantry,
Coal power plant it the best power building.
Religious Settlements being the best pantheon because a free city is always useful.
Neighborhoods - not useful enough
Sewers - not useful enough"

Agreed. I would like to see neighbourhoods revamped, like changing names through the ages, being needed from start and giving bonus to proximity, like 10% of yelds for each neighbourhood next to a district. Sewers should affect growth directly. BUt like you said, probably won`t be changed.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

My problem with Amazon is that it remarks the stereotype of Brazil being a big jungle. Brazil is actually a huge farm, in colonial times it was the biggest producer of sugar for the longgest tiem, then we were one of the biggest gold mines and diamond mines in the world, then came coffee. The trade routes based on plantantion and mines would represent that. Plus, we are one of the biggest countries in the world, bigger than continental USA(minus Alaska, I mean), and this is partially because of the bandeirantes, that explored and claimed huge chunks of the territory. It´s way more significant than the Minas Gerais, in our history. In modern times, we had one of the fastest developments in history, up to the 70s, flipping from a rural country to a urban and industrial one, in about 40 years, wich back then was kind of fast. Hence Getulio Vargas and development.

I mean I don't mind keeping the name "Amazon" ability and make it work around rainforest considering we don't have a lot of civs that revolve around it.
Here's the original ability which they can keep:
Rainforest tiles provide a +1 adjacency bonus for Campus, Commercial Hub, Holy Site, and Theater Square districts, and grant +1 Appeal to adjacent tiles, instead of the usual -1.
In addition lumbermills on rainforests are unlocked at construction instead of Mercantilism. Plantations on a rainforest tile culture bomb surrounding tiles. Any unimproved rainforest tile will provide +2 science.

As much as I'm fond of the idea of having double extraction of resources on rainforest tiles such as camps, plantations, and mines it sounds a little bit too similar to Canada.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

I hope they don't change Babylon. I'm definitely not a big fan of this design, but I don't want to ruin it for others who do, and there is definitely an equally large player base who enjoys the civ. In multiplayer community where the civ ability is nerfed (the BBG mod), Babylon feels like a really boring civ with no flavor. The devs backed themselves into a corner with Babylon's design from the beginning, so I think it is fine to leave them like that.

 

[Xandinho]

My problem with Amazon is that it remarks the stereotype of Brazil being a big jungle. Brazil is actually a huge farm, in colonial times it was the biggest producer of sugar for the longgest tiem, then we were one of the biggest gold mines and diamond mines in the world, then came coffee. The trade routes based on plantantion and mines would represent that. Plus, we are one of the biggest countries in the world, bigger than continental USA(minus Alaska, I mean), and this is partially because of the bandeirantes, that explored and claimed huge chunks of the territory. It´s way more significant than the Minas Gerais, in our history. In modern times, we had one of the fastest developments in history, up to the 70s, flipping from a rural country to a urban and industrial one, in about 40 years, wich back then was kind of fast. Hence Getulio Vargas and development.

I mean I don't mind keeping the name "Amazon" ability and make it work around rainforest considering we don't have a lot of civs that revolve around it.
Here's the original ability which they can keep:
Rainforest tiles provide a +1 adjacency bonus for Campus, Commercial Hub, Holy Site, and Theater Square districts, and grant +1 Appeal to adjacent tiles, instead of the usual -1.
In addition lumbermills on rainforests are unlocked at construction instead of Mercantilism. Plantations on a rainforest tile culture bomb surrounding tiles. Any unimproved rainforest tile will provide +2 science.

As much as I'm fond of the idea of having double extraction of resources on rainforest tiles such as camps, plantations, and mines it sounds a little bit too similar to Canada.

In my opinion, the "Amazon Rainforest" ability is as good as it is, it's quite underestimated, but the facility to obtain campus and theater square with high adjacency is impressive, not to mention the facility to obtain seaside resorts with jungles granting +1 appeal. If I were to change something here, I would put lumbermills on rainforests earlier and rainforests tiles in Brazilian territory granting +2 gold to represent the Amazon rubber boom.

I think what needs to change most in the Brazilian civ are the Street Carnival and Copacabana. Street carnival granting culture based on appeal and tourism after flight, and Capacabana giving +1 more appeal to all tiles in the city and +2 appeal to ajacentes tiles. Increases the refund when recruiting Great People from 20% to 25%.

I hope that in Civ7 they will make Brazil more focused on agriculture and animal husbandry, since Brazil is one of the largest granaries in the world.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

My problem with Amazon is that it remarks the stereotype of Brazil being a big jungle. Brazil is actually a huge farm, in colonial times it was the biggest producer of sugar for the longgest tiem, then we were one of the biggest gold mines and diamond mines in the world, then came coffee. The trade routes based on plantantion and mines would represent that. Plus, we are one of the biggest countries in the world, bigger than continental USA(minus Alaska, I mean), and this is partially because of the bandeirantes, that explored and claimed huge chunks of the territory. It´s way more significant than the Minas Gerais, in our history. In modern times, we had one of the fastest developments in history, up to the 70s, flipping from a rural country to a urban and industrial one, in about 40 years, wich back then was kind of fast. Hence Getulio Vargas and development.

Canada is one of the tundra civs while having most of the country except their area(population, economic, culture...) in not tundra territories.
Hungary has a CUA based upon one (1) city.

Sometimes we have to sacrifice some realism for gameplay-sake. Having a civ getting bonuses from jungle instead of maluses is kind of unique, and Brazil has a notable part of its territory covered with rainforest. For the sake of it, I think it's not that bad, and especially better than making Brazil a "farm" civ, because it won't be very interesting... Less interesting IMO than getting appeal and adjacency from rainforest. Could it have gone to another civ, like Vietnam or Khmers? Maybe, but Brazil it is. Maybe in the next iteration? Although I hoped for a long time to have France not be the passive cultural powerhouse and I'm still waiting... Had some good hopes with CdM Flying Squadron, but Magnificent and Freleanor just doubled on the "France do nothing but culture"

 

[slavaskii]

In my opinion, the "Amazon Rainforest" ability is as good as it is, it's quite underestimated, but the facility to obtain campus and theater square with high adjacency is impressive, not to mention the facility to obtain seaside resorts with jungles granting +1 appeal. If I were to change something here, I would put lumbermills on rainforests earlier and rainforests tiles in Brazilian territory granting +2 gold to represent the Amazon rubber boom.

I think what needs to change most in the Brazilian civ are the Street Carnival and Copacabana. Street carnival granting culture based on appeal and tourism after flight, and Capacabana giving +1 more appeal to all tiles in the city and +2 appeal to ajacentes tiles. Increases the refund when recruiting Great People from 20% to 25%.

I hope that in Civ7 they will make Brazil more focused on agriculture and animal husbandry, since Brazil is one of the largest granaries in the world.

Maybe this is controversial, but I think Brazil was upgraded to one of the best civs in the game due to how powerful adjacency has become. For science, Rationalism has been nerfed so hard that you need +4 campuses to get 50% of the bonus... Brazil can reliably get that due to their jungle spawn that never fails (unlike, say, Maya's plantation """bias"""). This doesn't just apply to campuses either, so unlike Netherlands, you can get this everywhere. Holy sites, as well, got huge buffs due to Work Ethic, and Brazil is tied with Russia as the best exploiter of them. Sure Brazil's sites may not be as cheap as a discounted Lavra, but considering Brazil's bonuses apply to everything, I'll take it.

But this begs the question about whether or not Brazil is truly 'fine' where it is. I've thought about it for a long time and I feel like Pedro's Leader Ability needs a buff, possibly to the above suggestion of lumber mills on rainforests coming early. Civ V had that special rainforest improvement that I thought fit well with Brazil, making it so the rainforest wasn't so much of a pain to deal with until mercantilism (why this civic I'll never understand). The Street Carnival/Copacabana is not incredibly strong due to it being an Entertainment District replacement, and the UU is absurdly strong but it's situational. If 2/3 civs receive substantial buffs to make them fit with the current meta, I feel like Brazil, an already strong civ, is deserving of something a bit more, too. Brazil shouldn't be ignored just because they won the 'lottery' of working well with every update, there's still things about them that could be improved.

My gripe with the leader ability is that it's just... not really thought through. Yeah it looks good on paper, but think: if you have far more GP than any other Civ, your 20% refund won't matter at all. If you have far less, the 20% helps, but does nothing to ensure you'll get another GP while others are running away with it. Perhaps it could be changed so you can RECRUIT Great People with far less gold and faith, thereby allowing Brazil to truly 'attract' the greatest minds to the empire. Getting the bonus only when you recruit doesn't really have the desired effect imho.

 

[bengalryan9]

Maybe this is controversial, but I think Brazil was upgraded to one of the best civs in the game due to how powerful adjacency has become. For science, Rationalism has been nerfed so hard that you need +4 campuses to get 50% of the bonus... Brazil can reliably get that due to their jungle spawn that never fails (unlike, say, Maya's plantation """bias"""). This doesn't just apply to campuses either, so unlike Netherlands, you can get this everywhere. Holy sites, as well, got huge buffs due to Work Ethic, and Brazil is tied with Russia as the best exploiter of them. Sure Brazil's sites may not be as cheap as a discounted Lavra, but considering Brazil's bonuses apply to everything, I'll take it.

But this begs the question about whether or not Brazil is truly 'fine' where it is. I've thought about it for a long time and I feel like Pedro's Leader Ability needs a buff, possibly to the above suggestion of lumber mills on rainforests coming early. Civ V had that special rainforest improvement that I thought fit well with Brazil, making it so the rainforest wasn't so much of a pain to deal with until mercantilism (why this civic I'll never understand). The Street Carnival/Copacabana is not incredibly strong due to it being an Entertainment District replacement, and the UU is absurdly strong but it's situational. If 2/3 civs receive substantial buffs to make them fit with the current meta, I feel like Brazil, an already strong civ, is deserving of something a bit more, too. Brazil shouldn't be ignored just because they won the 'lottery' of working well with every update, there's still things about them that could be improved.

My gripe with the leader ability is that it's just... not really thought through. Yeah it looks good on paper, but think: if you have far more GP than any other Civ, your 20% refund won't matter at all. If you have far less, the 20% helps, but does nothing to ensure you'll get another GP while others are running away with it. Perhaps it could be changed so you can RECRUIT Great People with far less gold and faith, thereby allowing Brazil to truly 'attract' the greatest minds to the empire. Getting the bonus only when you recruit doesn't really have the desired effect imho.

FWIW I've always felt that Brazil was pretty good. Maybe their leader ability isn't great but it's not like it's completely worthless either, and with a powerful civ ability like Amazon it balances it out. The only change I'd make is that I'd give their unique district a similar trait like Vietnam's - make it so that it doesn't count towards the city district limit so you can plop them down in every city without sacrificing anything. This also allows you to build Zoos in every city, further boosting their jungle tiles.

As for early jungle lumbermills, I don't know. I'd probably just try to throw down preserves to boost my unimproved jungle tiles instead, personally.

 

[slavaskii]

FWIW I've always felt that Brazil was pretty good. Maybe their leader ability isn't great but it's not like it's completely worthless either, and with a powerful civ ability like Amazon it balances it out. The only change I'd make is that I'd give their unique district a similar trait like Vietnam's - make it so that it doesn't count towards the city district limit so you can plop them down in every city without sacrificing anything. This also allows you to build Zoos in every city, further boosting their jungle tiles.

As for early jungle lumbermills, I don't know. I'd probably just try to throw down preserves to boost my unimproved jungle tiles instead, personally.

Mirroring Vietnam's Thanh is actually a really good idea for Brazil's Unique District. I think they're trying to avoid this because it weakens some of the power of Germany's UA, and plus, having a free district is an incredible bonus itself and makes it a no-brainer to build. I substituted Thanhs for theatre squares and didn't regret it one bit. But because Brazil's district is also not really an essential one (like the encampment), I can see them making it free. Or, at the very least, giving it a culture bonus.

I also want to point out that Brazil has the opportunity to score era score twice from its unique district. I tried this out last week, 5 era points are granted for the Street Carnival, and another 5 are granted for the Copacabana. Just an interesting aside.

How good are preserves as Brazil, btw? I'm going to start a game up with them later but was interested in this, the preserve 'prevents' you from improving neighboring tiles, but if I had a tile completely surrounded by jungle, I think I'd prefer a campus there than anything else. How often do you use preserves with this civ?

 

[UWHabs]

Mirroring Vietnam's Thanh is actually a really good idea for Brazil's Unique District. I think they're trying to avoid this because it weakens some of the power of Germany's UA, and plus, having a free district is an incredible bonus itself and makes it a no-brainer to build. I substituted Thanhs for theatre squares and didn't regret it one bit. But because Brazil's district is also not really an essential one (like the encampment), I can see them making it free. Or, at the very least, giving it a culture bonus.

I also want to point out that Brazil has the opportunity to score era score twice from its unique district. I tried this out last week, 5 era points are granted for the Street Carnival, and another 5 are granted for the Copacabana. Just an interesting aside.

How good are preserves as Brazil, btw? I'm going to start a game up with them later but was interested in this, the preserve 'prevents' you from improving neighboring tiles, but if I had a tile completely surrounded by jungle, I think I'd prefer a campus there than anything else. How often do you use preserves with this civ?

I think for Brazil, I would rather they copy the other aspect of Vietnam's districts - make it so that placing a district on a rainforest tile does not remove the underlying improvement. I wouldn't force them to only be built there, but being able to plant a campus triangle and retain the jungle underneath would be even more fun planning out with them.

 

[bengalryan9]

How good are preserves as Brazil, btw? I'm going to start a game up with them later but was interested in this, the preserve 'prevents' you from improving neighboring tiles, but if I had a tile completely surrounded by jungle, I think I'd prefer a campus there than anything else. How often do you use preserves with this civ?

The key is to try to place your preserves so that they buff the jungle tiles that are buffing the adjacencies of all your other districts. Since Brazil gets appeal bonuses to jungle tiles you should be able to get the full bonuses from the preserve buildings. You sacrifice the production from the lumber mills but you'll set so many other bonuses to those jungle tiles it more than makes up for it.

 

[Flactine]

Rough Rider Teddy and Magnificence Catherine.