Who's the greatest general?

[ohcrapitsnico]

Double Post.

 

[ohcrapitsnico]

double post

 

[PredatorFett]

No. Because he knew what he wanted and how to get it. It's not immoral to respect someone for their "accomplishments", (being a measure of how much he accomplished, which unfortunately for millions of people, was quite alot.)

 

[ohcrapitsnico]

No. Because he knew what he wanted and how to get it. It's not immoral to respect someone for their "accomplishments", (being a measure of how much he accomplished, which unfortunately for millions of people, was quite alot.)

The way he achieved is ends is outrageous simply in the sense that he took to the extreme the ends justifies the means and then some more to the nth degree. He went over the top and was immensely egotistical in that he strove for what he wanted no matter what number of people had to pay for his self-satisfaction. It is not immoral to respect someone for their accomplishments but his accomplishments were negligible and outdone by his murder.

 

[RedRalph]

Zhukow was more a danger for his men than the Germans! He was only a mediocore general- at best. He won only with the masses and Hitler's mistakes.

Adler

Oh really??? Please explain how. I've got to hear this.

 

[Ancient Grudge]

He wasn't more of a danger but you've got to admit that his assault on the Seelow Heights was absolutely disastrous to his infantry (such as setting up massive light beams which where meant to blind the enemy but only achieved in blinding his own) let alone his tank brigades (pushing them forward into the assault before the infantry had done the work, which links in with my point below)

Not to mention pushing his men in front of the (I think) 1st Ukrainian Front in the assault on Berlin to be massacred by the afore mentioned fronts massed heavy artillery (the situation was ofcourse caused by Stalin but Zhukov in his selfish such for glory sacrificed his men for absolutely no use, as the war was won!)

And that is just in the few weeks before the fall before Berlin let alone the entire war. Zhukov was a disaster for his men but a miracle for his country.

 

[RedRalph]

He wasn't more of a danger but you've got to admit that his assault on the Seelow Heights was absolutely disastrous to his infantry (such as setting up massive light beams which where meant to blind the enemy but only achieved in blinding his own) let alone his tank brigades (pushing them forward into the assault before the infantry had done the work, which links in with my point below)

Not to mention pushing his men in front of the (I think) 1st Ukrainian Front in the assault on Berlin to be massacred by the afore mentioned fronts massed heavy artillery (the situation was ofcourse caused by Stalin but Zhukov in his selfish such for glory sacrificed his men for absolutely no use, as the war was won!)

And that is just in the few weeks before the fall before Berlin let alone the entire war. Zhukov was a disaster for his men but a miracle for his country.

Of course he made mistakes but think about how much combat he directed and in what circumstances. Loads of Red Army soldiers died under his command, can you think of a single general in history under whose command these batteles woul;d have passed off without huge losses? and youre ignoring what he did do right.

 

[Adler17]

Zhukow lost only because of the masses of men he had. If Heinrici had enough men and supply he would have stopped Zhukow and he would try it still in this moment. Also the catastrophe of the Operation Mercury after Stalingrad was also partly his fault.
Zhukow came only to Berlin because of bad decisions by Hitler. A competent enemy with sufficient forces would have stopped Zhukow.

Adler

 

[privatehudson]

A competent commander with sufficient forces can stop anyone, no matter how good or bad the opposing commander is. The fact is the Germans didn't have those forces (nor for that matter anything like the rail network to transport them into position, nor the fuel supplies to use them), having squandered them in pointless counter offensives.

Personally I don't subscribe to the belief that the Wehrmacht's high command was filled with geniuses who only failed to win the war because of Hitler's constant meddling.

 

[Adler17]

Well, if Manstein had to quit because of Hitler, Rommel had to commit suicide, Guderian and Rundstedt also no longer in charge... What do you expect if you don't let your best horses run in the worst times?

Adler

 

[Ancient Grudge]

Of course he made mistakes but think about how much combat he directed and in what circumstances. Loads of Red Army soldiers died under his command, can you think of a single general in history under whose command these batteles woul;d have passed off without huge losses? and youre ignoring what he did do right.

Pray tell where I have ignored what he did right as I believe I said he was a miracle for his country.
He was a danger to his troops because he actively sought personal gain over the lives of his soldiers.
Streching your frontline battalions across the main axis of advance of another front exposing them to extremly heavy shelling by the massed artillery of afore mentioned front.

I agree with PH Germany simply couldn't logistically win the war.

 

[privatehudson]

Well, if Manstein had to quit because of Hitler, Rommel had to commit suicide, Guderian and Rundstedt also no longer in charge... What do you expect if you don't let your best horses run in the worst times?

I doubt very much that the presence of even that bunch could have stopped the fall of Berlin in 1945 given the situation Germany was in. Good commanders is one thing, having the resources, infrastucture and coherent formations to allow the commanders sucess is another. But hey lets blame all the failures on Hitler, neatly side-stepping the fact that his generals sometimes agreed with him or simply couldn't agree between themselves half the time.

 

[AznWarlord]

Genghis Khan. Sadly, his legacy easily raped that of his descendants.

 

[cybrxkhan]

^estimates put it that 1/8 all Asiatic peoples are descended from Genghis, and 1/20 people in the world are descended from Genghis. His blood has traveled everywhere, from tribal dynasties in Pakistan, to the Russian Tsars, to the Ottoman Sultans, to the British throne... scary guy.

 

[AznWarlord]

And really, no one that shares his blood accomplished what he did.

 

[Turkish_Aries]

1st Mehmed II
2nd Xerxes
another 2nd Atilla

 

[mr_lewington]

^estimates put it that 1/8 all Asiatic peoples are descended from Genghis, and 1/20 people in the world are descended from Genghis. His blood has traveled everywhere, from tribal dynasties in Pakistan, to the Russian Tsars, to the Ottoman Sultans, to the British throne... scary guy.

What!? how is that possible!

 

[Birdjaguar]

What!? how is that possible!

Lots and lots of sex with women who were from all over Asia.

 

[mr_lewington]

how did that reach the british throne and all that stuff?

 

[cybrxkhan]

how did that reach the british throne and all that stuff?

some of his descendants in Russia (including GOlden Khanate), as well as those in Eastern Europe, found their way into Eastern and Central European blood. it must be known, then, that the current British throne has a degree of blood from Central and Eastern europe. thats all.