Why am I so frustrated with Civ4?

[Yarr]

I have been a fan of the civ series for a while now, with my favorite being civ2. I've read that a lot of people consider civ4 to be the best in the series, but all I have found it to be is incredibly frustrating. Here are a few of the frustrating experiences I have run into:

- Barbarians. They advance in technology incredibly fast. I'm often scrambling to defend my cities against multiple barbarian axemen shortly after researching bronze working (one of the first techs I research), much less finding a bronze deposit and getting it mined. A good portion of my games I just quit early as the sheer number and power of barbarians hold back my growth so far that I cannot even remain competitive.

- AI's totally random/malicious warfare. An AI opponent that is +7/8/9/... in rating with me will suddenly declare war, move in and start razing tile improvements. By the time my superior army is able to clear them out of my territory, I am 50 turns behind in tile improvements. If this happens late in the game it usually is a game ender

- City razing. I realize this has been around for a while, but never before have I seen it happen so often. A well defended city gets taken down by a couple of lucky rolls on the part of the AI, and suddenly a million people and thousands of years of city improvements are gone in the blink of an eye.

- Unbalanced start locations. Inevitably I am crammed in a small or midsize continent with two or more civilizations right next to me -- I'm talking meeting two civilizations by turn four on a standard size map the vast majority of the time. Meanwhile, there's usually another continent where two, or even only one, AI players have a huge continent to themselves.

- Also, though settler start positions seem to be fairly well balanced, if you start along the equator you can quickly find yourself forced to expand into unproductive desert or jungle tiles (or tundra if near the poles), where the AI has plenty of rivers with grasslands and plains. Sometimes this will work in my favor, but it is very annoying to get 100 turns into the game and have to quit because you have an absolutely hopless start location.

Am I doing something wrong? Why do other people enjoy Civ4 so much when I find it so frustrating?

 

[flamingzaroc121]

you can turn off barbarians if they are too frustrating, but you have to just stick it out. if you have a low power rating the AI will attack you no matter how much they like you most people actually say that being by yourself is bad, because you cant tech trade.

for everything if you just take one step down to a lower level, (not permanently) and take a breather you cant get better and do what youve been doing and check out civfanatics there are a lot of helpful threads/articles that you can look at to help

 

[T.A JONES]

I have been a fan of the civ series for a while now, with my favorite being civ2.

I read all your points and found them all to be common ailments however your the first person to ever hold Civ2 in highest regard and yet not like CIv4. I think this is a postive sign meaning you just havn't found all things Civ4 has to offer yet.

Im a Civ3 modded player myself but hope you get what you where after with this title, at least by the addidtion of the final expansion.

 

[vra379971]

With Barbs, they gain tech in the following manner - Everytime (Till Rifling) ANY civ gets its first of a unit out, they get to use it. So, I'm guessing Bronze Working or, even better, Chariots has not been a priority. It should be.

You second point leads me to ask a question...WHICH AI's are doing this warring to you?

Finally, if your superior army isn't able to defeat the enemy quickly, your tactics clearly need improvment. They can't pillage you OR raze you if you move to counter them.

 

[Xiahou Mao]

- Barbarians. They advance in technology incredibly fast. I'm often scrambling to defend my cities against multiple barbarian axemen shortly after researching bronze working (one of the first techs I research), much less finding a bronze deposit and getting it mined. A good portion of my games I just quit early as the sheer number and power of barbarians hold back my growth so far that I cannot even remain competitive.

What level are you playing on? Barbarian axemen shouldn't be showing up until around 1000 BC or later. There's a good period of time where there should only be barbarian warriors, and maybe an archer. If you research Bronze Working very early, you should have it between 2500-3000 BC, which should give you the time to find and hook up copper. Alternately, Animal Husbandry for horses and Chariot units should help save you (assuming you have Warlords, which gives Chariots +100% Attack vs. Axemen).

You might also want to use "fog-buster" scouts. Place some warrior or scout units outside your borders on a hills where they can see a long ways away. Barbarians only spawn in the fog of war, the area you can't see. If you can see all around your country, barbarians won't spawn near you, and you'll have plenty of warning when they appear farther away.

AI's totally random/malicious warfare. An AI opponent that is +7/8/9/... in rating with me will suddenly declare war, move in and start razing tile improvements. By the time my superior army is able to clear them out of my territory, I am 50 turns behind in tile improvements. If this happens late in the game it usually is a game ender

If you have a superior army, then they won't declare war on you. If you have a superior army, they aren't going to live long enough to raze your improvements. So the obvious answer here is, you don't have a superior army. You may be advanced techologically, but your army is small and thus you're a tempting target, even if they're friendly to you.

Make a habit of checking the Power graph from the F9 menu. See where you rank on there. If you're in the lower third, you're a target. If you're at or near the top, even your enemies will think twice about actually attacking you. A lot of Civ players get hung up on the idea of building every building in every city. Not every city needs a Market or a Temple or a Library. Sure, they're nice to have, but building units is always good too. Keeps those neighbours under control.

City razing. I realize this has been around for a while, but never before have I seen it happen so often. A well defended city gets taken down by a couple of lucky rolls on the part of the AI, and suddenly a million people and thousands of years of city improvements are gone in the blink of an eye.

See above. If you're building and maintaining a sizable army, this won't happen to you. If your city is truly well-defended, the AI won't even try to attack it, they'll instead try to pillage instead. Because they're attacking, it means your defenses are weaker and defeatable.

Unbalanced start locations. Inevitably I am crammed in a small or midsize continent with two or more civilizations right next to me -- I'm talking meeting two civilizations by turn four on a standard size map the vast majority of the time. Meanwhile, there's usually another continent where two, or even only one, AI players have a huge continent to themselves.

It happens sometimes, but for every time you're disadvantaged by it, there'll be a time where you benefit from it. The game wouldn't be much fun if you always had the advantage, would it?

Also, though settler start positions seem to be fairly well balanced, if you start along the equator you can quickly find yourself forced to expand into unproductive desert or jungle tiles (or tundra if near the poles), where the AI has plenty of rivers with grasslands and plains. Sometimes this will work in my favor, but it is very annoying to get 100 turns into the game and have to quit because you have an absolutely hopless start location.

Again, it requires more work, but it can be salvaged. If you're near the equator, go for Iron Working earlier than you normally might so you can turn the jungles into usable grassland. Make more Workers too, of course. It's all about adjusting to handle the hand you're dealt. The only truly unplayable starting location I saw was in a hotseat Archipelago game, where one player was given a single-tile island to start on, with no other land in sight. If I were playing that game myself, I might've tried it just to see what would've happened.

 

[potatokiosk]

The barbarian things doesn't make sense. Why should barbarians be able to pick up technologies that are being implemented halfway around the world when a fullblown civilization can't?

 

[Zerpent]

Because they have a huge information network only usable by barbarians. They're pure evil I tell ya, pure evil!

 

[AcCoL]

I didnt like civ4 when i first got it as well...but as you play more (and learn more) it really grows on you.

 

[weimingshi]

I don't like city razing neither. I mean i understand in ancient age you can do that. but come mordern age you can still erase a city that was founded 4000+ years ago???? Thats stupid. Luckily If you play custom game, you can check the no city razing option, which I always do. And if you want play scenario, you can edit the scenario file to add this option manually.

 

[Breunor]

Yarr,

CIV IV is probably the hardest of the CIV's. However, if you get good at it, it is very rewarding. It is much more strategically demanding than the earlier games in the line.

Because of the greater difficulty, consider moving down levels. There is no shame -- not everyone is a chess grandmaster, not everyone can win on Diety. I could pretty easily win CIV III on demigod and emperor was a breeze for me; in CIV IV, monarch is very hard.

Of course, if you pick up CIV IV from CIV II, you are likely trying CIV II tactics that won't work here.

Best wishes,

Breunor

 

[Tee Kay]

- Barbarians. If you get Warlords, Great Wall helps a lot. Also in Warlords Chariots get 100% vs axeman so they're very good at stopping barbs. I suggest building some archers and placing them on hills as "barb traps": barbs will often attack the archers instead of your cities or improvements. Also, the archers can act as fog busters as well. Chariots help, even in vanilla.

- AI's totally random/malicious warfare/City razing. Here's what I suggest. Don't build archers. Instead, try to get the AI before it can destroy too many tiles with horse archers or axes/maces or spears. Know what unit get bonus against which eg spears get bonus vs mounted. Most of the time AI attack you with a small-medium sized stack at the start of the war. After you defeat this initial stack, it's likely they won't send another stack again at your cities and will just send a few horses in on raiding parties. And try to identify the warmongers eg Monty of the Aztecs, the French, Alexander etc and take them out early if possible.

- Unbalanced start locations. This happens. In the scenario you posted, try to think of it as an opportunity to quickly eliminate your opponents. I figured that being stuck in another continent all alone is worse because you'll likely fall behind in tech. Or simply reload the map.

 

[paperchase417]

Ironically I always do well when Im all by myself. It snuffs out my thirst for wanton distruction of neighboring civs. If there is no one to war with, I can only expand so far before I have to concentrate on culture,research and finance. When I share the continent with other civs, I tend to build settlers until all the land is taken up, then I build military units to take the land of my neighbors. Some times i think I play this game wrong. Cause I am never satisfied with peace, and as soon as I discover a neighbor civ, my every turn is spent stifling them in one fashion or another, even if my own civ suffers for it.

 

[Neoclast]

I have found a big difference with Civ 4 is having an active Defense as some have already mentioned. Basically when an enemy moves a stack into your teritory, your defense should go kill it immeadiately. Don't let them move around and pillage or even get to your cities. The best part about this strategy is after you wipe out there stack, you now have the upper hand on troops who probally just got some new promotions.

On the Jungle starts, don't give up hope on them. There is a lot of nice green grasslands under the jungle tiles and often a lot of good resources to be had there. I don't win a whole lot of game yet on Prince, but I did just pull out a solid SR Victory the other day after starting by myself on a jungle island continent.

For the barbarians I highly suggest the previous posters sugestions. Chariots early are huge because they mobile and counter the axemen, then worry about getting your own axemen before the barbarian swordsmen show up.

 

[Sisiutil]

Yarr--welcome to CFC!

Everyone else has addressed your specific difficulties, so let me just echo Breunor's point that Civ IV does indeed require a lot of strategic thinking--which is why I love it so.

You've taken the right step by posting here; as you can see, you'll get plenty of free advice! I would highly recommend visiting this sites' War Academy. It can be as overwhelming as the game, so just try reading through one article on one area of the game that you want to improve. Then go play a game and apply its lessons. Come back to the WA and try it again with another article, and so on.

I came from Civ II to Civ IV as well, and I haven't looked back. This forum helped immeasurably.

 

[motherboard1]

does raising the city destroy wonders? I vaguely recall reading that wonders arent destroyed, but maybe that meant when the city is captured, I dont know Im a noob.

either way, Settlers should be able to move in and re populate the city, and most buildings should still remain

 

[Yarr]

Thanks for the tips. I'm starting to enjoy Civ4 now. I'm still having some fairly frustrating experiences -- for example, on a recent game, I was doing very well and had founded two cities near horses, bronze, marble, pigs, and wheat, when in 1400 BC two barbarian axemen and two warriors decended on my capital and captured it (I had an archer and a warrior defending it at the time, 1 turn away from building a chariot). However, I'm able to enjoy most games.

 

[EscapedGoat]

From your posts, it seems like your biggest problem is lack of military, or that you are playing with raging barbarians...

In CIV4, you MUST have military. Leaving cities unguarded or with a warrior in defense is just asking for trouble, because the AI will exploit it, and barbarians will pillage you and cause grief.

It's also helpful to get a a good starting build order. For me, this involves finding horses or copper ASAP and settling my second city right next to or on top of this resource, slaving out a barracks somewhere and starting to produce units with 4+ attack ratings and 1-2 promotions(2 if I am an aggressive civ )

There is a small window in the early game where you can afford to have no army except warriors. Use this time to settle 2-3 cities and then start really making some defenses, you will need em.

 

[Stangler]

I am a big fan of Civ II as well and there were certain adjustments that I have had to make.

1) Dealing with culture and border expansion. By pushing out your borders you can reach more resources and you see more of the map. I love creative civs early on because of this.

2) Limiting early expansion. I want to pump out settlers and fill in all those spots. I have to control that urge and only start a couple cities that I need and will be helpful. Conquer the rest, especially capitals that are always well placed.

3) Early warmongering before culture defense is too high and push towards catapult to continue warmongering. Chopping rules.

4) That stupid lion killed my settler!!!! Well one good thing about enemies is that they tend to kill those pesky animals. So sending out a settler near another civs scout/warrior/archer can be a good idea. (or you can just escort it)

5) Making sure I have iron. It is always a good idea to be ready for not having iron near one of your cities.

6)Hooking up those early resources. My early techs are almost always bronze, agri, wheel, animal husbandry, and iron.

 

[vilemerchant]

Thanks for the tips. I'm starting to enjoy Civ4 now. I'm still having some fairly frustrating experiences -- for example, on a recent game, I was doing very well and had founded two cities near horses, bronze, marble, pigs, and wheat, when in 1400 BC two barbarian axemen and two warriors decended on my capital and captured it (I had an archer and a warrior defending it at the time, 1 turn away from building a chariot). However, I'm able to enjoy most games.

At that point in the game you should be in Slavery, you could have easily whipped that chariot or an axeman long before they got to the city.

 

[jerVL/kg]

- Barbarians...
- AI's totally random/malicious warfare...
- City razing...
- Unbalanced start locations...

This sounds so familiar, I used to have grief from all these things, and I found the way to fix it is roll up a custom game that all but guarantees you to start out alone on your own quiet island.

So nearly every game I play is with Archipelago/Snaky Continents/High Sea Level -- more often than not, I'll have my own small private continent, which is easily covered by fog-busting scouts (thus ending the barb problem) and there's no worry about the AI attacking you or settling on your land for a LONG time. (Another option is Custom Continents/1 per team, but that tends to create very large islands where barbs are still troublesome.)

And don't diss those jungles, man...there's some lovely grassland tiles under there for cottage utopia, plus some very nice resources like gems, ivory, bananas, sugar, silk, spices, dye, etc...