Why can only"fast" units retreat?
- Thread starter Vietcong
- Start date
Gengis Khan
Deity
Because you can't retreat from a unit thats as fast as you are. You wouldn't run away, you'd just get stabbed/shot in the back over & over.
Why can only fast units retreat? Cuz they're fast!
Think about it: Units can only retreat when they're faster than the other unit.* This makes perfect sense to me. A unit cannot retreat from another unit of equal or greater speed. A unit can retreat from a unit of lesser speed.
*Actually, they can only retreat when they're a "fast" unit (more than 1 movement point), except when up against another fast unit. IMO, it should be like I said above (so a 3 movement point unit could retreat from a 2 movement point unit). But this doesn't make much of a difference, since rarely do you see a 3-mp unit against a 2-mp unit (unless you're playing a modded game).
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Think about it: Units can only retreat when they're faster than the other unit.* This makes perfect sense to me. A unit cannot retreat from another unit of equal or greater speed. A unit can retreat from a unit of lesser speed.
*Actually, they can only retreat when they're a "fast" unit (more than 1 movement point), except when up against another fast unit. IMO, it should be like I said above (so a 3 movement point unit could retreat from a 2 movement point unit). But this doesn't make much of a difference, since rarely do you see a 3-mp unit against a 2-mp unit (unless you're playing a modded game).
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Vietcong, I'm afraid this is just another part of the game you're going to have to live with, for the reasons mentioned above. (Almost) everyone understands why Spearmen occasionally take out Tanks, but there's no way Warriors would/could/should outrun Cavalry.
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sealman
Hater of Babylonians
& over & over.
I think civrules is correct in what Vietcong is trying to ask.
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
In real life, some stone-age warriors would most likely be able to run away after their unit being beaten up by a force of knights. That no infantrymen would be able to escape a defeat against a tank force is a ridiculuous supposition.
However, Civ represents combat on an abstract, strategic level (which incidentally seems to be VC's real complaint - he appears to think it shouldn't). I find that restricting the retreat ability to mobile units nicely represents the superior ability for hit-and-run tactics, as well as for escape from a prusuing enemy, of mounted and mechanized units.
If we were concerned with realism on a tactical level, we'd be incensed that our Horsemen cannot retreat from attacking Swordsmen before combat occurs. In normal circumstances, cavalry is never forced to fight infantry unless cornered/surrounded, either of which any half-way competent commander should be able to avoid.
However, Civ represents combat on an abstract, strategic level (which incidentally seems to be VC's real complaint - he appears to think it shouldn't). I find that restricting the retreat ability to mobile units nicely represents the superior ability for hit-and-run tactics, as well as for escape from a prusuing enemy, of mounted and mechanized units.
If we were concerned with realism on a tactical level, we'd be incensed that our Horsemen cannot retreat from attacking Swordsmen before combat occurs. In normal circumstances, cavalry is never forced to fight infantry unless cornered/surrounded, either of which any half-way competent commander should be able to avoid.
shadow2k
Emperor
Modern Armor (3-mp) vs Mech Inf (2-mp)
Dr Alimentado
Prince
It works just fine in terms of gameplay. The combat system is simplistic in Civ3 but it's by design. I would have no problem with a more sophisticated combat system in Civ(4?) but remember that combat represents strategic combat, ie. divisions of units not individuals, so will always be abstracted.
edited to extinguish the flames and trolls.
edited to extinguish the flames and trolls.
edited to extinguish the flames and trolls
Yes, but how often are polls, er, happy?
Actually, in all fairness he did say Poles... who can be happy. At least, I hope they can be happy 
This Pole is content when you don't troll and flame.
Anyway, I don't see the problem. Fast units can't retreat from other fast units. Slow can't retreat from slow. Logical really. You have to draw the line between realism and fun somewhere. If every unit could retreat offensive wars would be far too difficult...
Yes, but how often are polls, er, happy?
Actually, in all fairness he did say Poles... who can be happy. At least, I hope they can be happy This Pole is content when you don't troll and flame.
Anyway, I don't see the problem. Fast units can't retreat from other fast units. Slow can't retreat from slow. Logical really. You have to draw the line between realism and fun somewhere. If every unit could retreat offensive wars would be far too difficult...
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
edited to extinguish the flames and trolls
Penguin Glory
Aquatic Pigeon
Back on topic, I think it makes perfect sense, can you imagine a warrior running away from a horse? Oh, and by the way, don't make fun of his spelling, he said in another thread that he had a disease or something. I hope he wasn't lying, or I just made a stupid fool out of myself. 
Schee
Duc des Skandes d'Æqualis
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Well seriously I think the rules about retreat are quite good as they are, but yes the submarines should be able to retreat, or even always retreat.
Can you really imagine a caravel pursuing a nuclear submarine in the depths of ocean to sink it ?
Well actually I can't even imagine it sinking a submarine even at the surface (at least in real life
)...
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
Well seriously I think the rules about retreat are quite good as they are, but yes the submarines should be able to retreat, or even always retreat.
Can you really imagine a caravel pursuing a nuclear submarine in the depths of ocean to sink it ?
Well actually I can't even imagine it sinking a submarine even at the surface (at least in real life
)...
Kryten
Smeee heeeeed
Like everybody else, I do like mounted units being able to retreat from foot soldiers.
But I too wish that units with a speed of 3 could retreat from units with a speed of 2.
This is what light horsemen, from the ancient Parthian Horse Archers to the late 19th century light cavalry, used to defend themselves.
(And why in PTW does the Keshik only have a move of 2? They are supposed to be light fast Mongol Horse Archers for gawd's sake, who could literally run rings around the heavier and slower Russian & Polish knights!)
While we are on this subject, could someone please explain to me how on earth you can fortify chariots and elephants?
Yes, charioteers could dismount I suppose, but then they wouldn't be much good....but ELEPHANTS?!
What do you do....put an elephant in a trench so that only the trunk is showing?
But I too wish that units with a speed of 3 could retreat from units with a speed of 2.
This is what light horsemen, from the ancient Parthian Horse Archers to the late 19th century light cavalry, used to defend themselves.
(And why in PTW does the Keshik only have a move of 2? They are supposed to be light fast Mongol Horse Archers for gawd's sake, who could literally run rings around the heavier and slower Russian & Polish knights!)
While we are on this subject, could someone please explain to me how on earth you can fortify chariots and elephants?
Yes, charioteers could dismount I suppose, but then they wouldn't be much good....but ELEPHANTS?!
What do you do....put an elephant in a trench so that only the trunk is showing?
Attachments
inm talking about slow vs slow units not slow vs fast.. u still have a chance of reatreting if the units the same speed, even if its faster then u!! how eals then did infantry retreat from tanks in ww2??? it dosent mater if ur faster or not u can still retreat..
edited to extinguish the flames and trolls
edit: what im saying is ALL unist shold have a chance to retreat. but depending on waht kinda unit it is and land its on, the odds change.. like a foot troops chold have a 5-10% chance of retreating in hilly land and a 15-25 in flat grass lands.. see my point is u can allways retreat if needed even from a unit that is faster then u.. dont tell me that troops in ww2 didnt retreat from tanks divisons! what i find strange is many of the same ppl u say that spear men can beat tanks (wich cant hapen) and that frigiots and gallions can beat battle ships(wich allso cant hapen) are saying that a guy on foot cant run from a guy on hores back!!!
edited to extinguish the flames and trolls
edit: what im saying is ALL unist shold have a chance to retreat. but depending on waht kinda unit it is and land its on, the odds change.. like a foot troops chold have a 5-10% chance of retreating in hilly land and a 15-25 in flat grass lands.. see my point is u can allways retreat if needed even from a unit that is faster then u.. dont tell me that troops in ww2 didnt retreat from tanks divisons! what i find strange is many of the same ppl u say that spear men can beat tanks (wich cant hapen) and that frigiots and gallions can beat battle ships(wich allso cant hapen) are saying that a guy on foot cant run from a guy on hores back!!!
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