Why Civ 6 AI is terrible - Part 1: Wonders

[Kwami]

I don't agree with letting the devs off the hook for creating a terrible product. The Civ IV AI played well and that was with computer technology that was 1/10 of what people have today. It's just poor planning and development by Firaxis and of course the 1 upt system.

The Civ IV AI was terrible. Also, Civ IV was a far less complex game than is Civ VI. Let's be honest about this. For the foreseeable future, AI is always going to need bonuses to be remotely competitive with human players. Most players aren't willing to sit around for 3-5 minutes every turn while the AI makes its moves.

 

[Magma_Dragoon]

The Civ IV AI was terrible

played a game of 4 recently, can confirm

 

[ashendashin]

The Civ IV AI was terrible. Also, Civ IV was a far less complex game than is Civ VI. Let's be honest about this. For the foreseeable future, AI is always going to need bonuses to be remotely competitive with human players. Most players aren't willing to sit around for 3-5 minutes every turn while the AI makes its moves.

Certainly doesn't need the absolutely massive and downright weird bonuses Firaxis gives it in place of any actual proper attention. I'll give you something; VP AI can take a while in their turns sometimes, largely due to the pathfinder(1UPT). Otherwise it's a reasonable pace, though I'm not the best person to decide what a reasonable pace is, given that I've been willing to play VP with 43 civs on a crappy old PC and only ever play with 22 otherwise. Been a while since I've played though and I certainly won't be comparing it to Civ 6 turn times.

Now, if any actual attention given to the AI means that it will 100% become an amazing AI (seriously you guys always push it as if it's either ******** AI or the very best) and make turn times unbearable, then sure, sure, you might have something.
But one difference between Civ5 and 6 is that 6 is 64-bit. I'm no programmer, but I think that gives a whole lot more leeway in terms of performance.

Edit:
Is a censor for that really necessary?

 

[Victoria]

Oh yeah the policies choices are abysmal. T

The weighting’s in that file are not always what it decides. In the same file I tend to filter on slotted to see what they actually pick, but agreed they are partially abysmal but that’s because they have a general policy of city growth.
Every now and then there is a random civic pick, this can be seen in the rand calls csv. Just not looked if that’s a research next or slot decision.
Anyway, I would pose that the issue with wonders is their lack of value as opposed to the AI building them, give the bad ones more power and things would be different.
There is also the fact that something like the Hermitage may be deemed rubbish but do stop spies stealing so sometimes they are underrated, and other things often over rated. I used to think oxford university useless but no longer.

 

[hdbhdbvGFG541]

The Civ IV AI was terrible. Also, Civ IV was a far less complex game than is Civ VI. Let's be honest about this. For the foreseeable future, AI is always going to need bonuses to be remotely competitive with human players. Most players aren't willing to sit around for 3-5 minutes every turn while the AI makes its moves.

Can you name why civ4 ai is terrible?
I see this being spoken in this forum like it is a given fact yet the ai in 4 can actually put up a fight compared to 6.
Also civ 6 is not more complex then 4 by any means,districts are not complex and everything else is certainly at the same level as civ 4 .
Remember complexity isn't about more having elements but how do they mix with other game play elements and create game play variations.

 

[PhilBowles]

Can you name why civ4 ai is terrible?
I see this being spoken in this forum like it is a given fact yet the ai in 4 can actually put up a fight compared to 6.

The combat system in IV is more AI-friendly. That doesn't stop it doing idiotic things like throwing catapult 3-stacks in front of your horsemen, but once it hits a critical mass of units it doesn't much matter how bad the unit selection is. And that's just combat, where Civ IV AI is universally agreed to be better than Civ V/VI.

Also civ 6 is not more complex then 4 by any means,districts are not complex and everything else is certainly at the same level as civ 4 .
Remember complexity isn't about more having elements but how do they mix with other game play elements and create game play variations.

Having more elements is exactly what being more complex is, when considered from an AI's perspective. It needs rules to tell it how to use each and those individual rules need to work well enough together to produce a good result. It has nothing at all to do with strategic variety.

Civ VI has two tech trees where Civ IV had one. It has resources for faith and tourism that didn't exist in Civ IV. It has a religion system that requires specific selections from a pool. It has more units, buildings, techs and Wonders in total. Wonders have site requirements. It has a far greater number of policy cards to select from. It has an entire religious combat system. It has individual civ traits that should be (but aren't) incorporated into individual civs' preferences and behaviour as they were in Civ V rather than a generic mix-and-match. It has individually created and selected trade routes, and AI behaviour needs to accommodate the fact that trade route capacity has to be grown manually rather than increasing at set technologies as in Civ V. It has a new type of map tile - Natural Wonders - to take into account. It has governors and the loyalty system, and era score. Civ VI is a far more complex game than Civ IV.

 

[whylom]

There is also the fact that something like the Hermitage may be deemed rubbish but do stop spies stealing so sometimes they are underrated, and other things often over rated. I used to think oxford university useless but no longer.

I'm curious to hear what changed your mind about Oxford University and the Hermitage. And what's this about "stop spies stealing"?

 

[Disgustipated]

I'm guessing he means spies can't steal great works of art from Hermitage like they can from art museums.

 

[whylom]

I'm guessing he means spies can't steal great works of art from Hermitage like they can from art museums.

Ohhhhh duh, that never occurred to me!

 

[Victoria]

I'm curious to hear what changed your mind about Oxford University and the Hermitage. And what's this about "stop spies stealing"?

And oxford university can save you a lot of science if used late, completes 2 random techs, that can be a lot and certainly shave a few turns off a science victory

 

[RohirrimElf]

I`ve got confidence in the devs. At this rate after 4 more patches and another expansion the AI should be very decent.
Combat AI is my biggest issue with the game do as it is very content rich already and overall very solid.
Next to the AI science should get another nerf. In my last game on emperor i finished the game on epic speed by turn 540/750. Could have done it in 520 turns i quess when played correctly without to much min-maxing.
As i could skip 20 turns of the last science project by using the special engineer that gives 4500 production on the parts. At optimal time instead of wasting it. R&F had a very decent update on science do. But further optimalisation is needed.

 

[sonicandfffan]

Good video.

But I was very distracted by Chicken Itza. Made me feel hungry

 

[steveg700]

To claim that it is "incidental" is to claim that Sid (and Bruce?) had no idea what he was doing when he first created wonders in Civ. The wonder race is a natural, and direct result of the way wonders are implemented, as unique buildings of which only one can exist in the world, unlocked by only requiring technologies that are easily accessible to all players.

Yeah, the race is a result. A byproduct. It's not the ends to which everything else should serve as a means.

That is to say, for AI's to build wonders solely for the sake of participating in a race in which they have little to gain other than the goal of obstructing the player in obtaining them is just a cockeyed way to look at Civ. It means the game as a whole isn't a race to victory, because the AI civ's don't pursue an endgame, rather they forfeit it to pursue what amounts to self-destructive kamikaze attacks. Far better that they use their resources at hand to build things they can actually use to outcompete.

Good video.

But I was very distracted by Chicken Itza. Made me feel hungry

Yeah, I could go for some Chicken Itza, maybe with bacon and extra tomato sauce.