Why do only I lose due to tourism?

S

SilverDash

Chieftain
Joined
Jul 8, 2013
Messages
54
See screenshot.

Why am I the only one that is losing happiness due to tourism? I mean, Mongolia has only 5000 culture and he loses 0 happiness (is this because he has no ideology yet?). But for every new ideology that is being chosen I lose happiness but ONLY me. To make it even worse, I have 0 open borders but the AI does have their borders opened for me so I should get +25% bonus for just that vs them.

Do I have to push some button or something to make all my tourists kill some civ? :P
 

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I choose first, I am leading in tech.

The fact that I do not have a common ideology along with me gives me a 34% penalty but I have 2x25% bonus to make up for that.

But you could be right. Perhaps when having more than 1 enemy with another ideology gives a 8 penalty in happiness each.
But on the other hand, if I would be playing vs like 12 AI or something, then I would get a penalty so huge that I'm instantly dead the moment the ideologies are chosen just because there will be ~7 civs with different ideologies. So I can't really imagine such penalties.
 
Ah okay so that explains the Mongolians not getting any unrest.

But it seems to be generated from tourism. I'm at -18 now and climbing. They are still at 0 and I have the most tourism now. I also still have open borders at their side so something is wrong or we are missing something that causes this.
Or could it be that 2 civs with the same ideology have their tourism cumulatively added vs all other civs?
Perhaps the AI is simply cheating REALLY hard?
 

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If you hover over the Public Opinion text (EG. the yellow 'Civil Resistance'), you will see how much pressure the other ideologies are pushing on you.

Everyone with an ideology puts pressure on everyone else with a *different* ideology. The amount of pressure is proportional to the ratio of their tourism in your civilization vs. your culture in your civilization. If you have made very little culture throughout the game, you are vulnerable to other ideologies tourism, which makes you vulnerable to losing a cultural victory, as well as those penalties for ideology.

Also, it is important to note that you are the only Freedom civ (which happened to me, but my huge culture meant that it didn't effect me). This means that all four of the other nations are exerting pressure on your civ, and the effects stack.

Either boost your own culture (not tourism, as your tourism makes life difficult in other civs, it doesn't make life easier for your civ), or destroy the main tourism cities of foreign ideologies. Closing borders, cutting off trade, etc. will also reduce the foreign tourism into your nation, and reduce the pressure.

Be sure to block any 'World Ideology' votes. That provides a moderate amount of pressure (enough to drop you one category, in this case into 'Revolutionary Wave', which is 1 :mad: for every 3 citizens, or 4 :mad: per city, whichever is higher) if you do not belong to the ideology.

And if you haven't devoted a huge amount of culture into your ideology, it might be an idea to give up, and become Order or Autocracy, just so you don't get such a large unhappiness penalty.
 
The amount of unhappiness being pushing on you by a particular civ is directly proportionate to the difference in your influence levels. If your culture is exotic to them, and theirs is familiar to you, you'll get hammered by unhappiness from them. If you're both influential to the other, no one gets any unhappiness penalties.

In other words, your tourism can help negate the unhappiness effects of enemy tourism - a useful thing to know when you go freedom, since the ai seems to have been written by a die-hard pinko.
 
That... would make a lot of sense. So that is what determines how many 'ideology symbols' there were appearing.

Please ignore my previous comment, if that is the case. You *can* use tourism to reduce pressure on *your* civ.
 
I'm about to push my tourism to 70. It's just that I probably have the most culture of everyone but I'm still the only one with penalties. Does your total amount of accumulated tourism counts or your culture/turn?

However, I did notice that I did get a 25% reduced pressure because I have a different ideology. So when I switch to autocracy I will get 25% more pressure from the 2 autocracy civs? When I switch I lose whatever I put in that ideology which is a whole lot.

I'd really love someone to write a short strategy guide/faq about culture/tourism and cultural victory. The official manual is a joke and I'm still not sure how to handle this victory type.
Going to war is not an option (yes I probably do something wrong here as well). I'm currently friendly with ALL civs and the moment I go to war with one they will all see me as a warmonger and I will lose my ~100GPT from trade... Thus I can't even sustain my army during wars, only during peace.

I want to conquer them using culture/tourism to make their cities revolt and join me.


UPDATE:
See attachment, 2-3 turns later I have 63 tourism and now I still have -18... The huge tourism increase changed NOTHING and I have about as much tourism as 2 enemy civs together. Something is not right!
 

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Your culture and tourism output are too low to stand against four civs with different ideologies. If you had high enough output of both then you could easily stand alone with Freedom. Did you skip on Aesthetics or something? Your culture output should be higher this late in the game.
 
No I went straight into ideology (I have the highest level tennet now) and I'm still building my broadcast towers and hotels at the moment. But some of the other civs are just got into the modern era so they shouldn't even have that yet.

I should be leading with culture as well as with tourism now. (I updated my previous post with a screenshot). Is there nowhere a demographics or something where I can compare culture?

EDIT:
Aahh.. I passed the 100 tourism now and the public opinion dropped from 19 to 8 all of a sudden :).
 
Influence levels are determined by the ratio of accumulated culture to accumulated tourism vs that civ. You can't crank up your tourism and expect results next turn - those numbers are large enough that it'll take twenty or thirty turns to fix things. If you want a decent amount of tourism, you have to start early.

Cultural overview - > influence by player shows the relevant information.
 
At the moment I have more tourism than all other civs together and it does exactly 0. So they must be having some insane culture. But I also changed to content now. Even the Babylonians that lost their capital (but retook it) and got nuked like 5 times and only have 2 tiny cities left can defend themselves against my hundreds of tourism... Tourism is worthless unless you perhaps have like 700 of it?

Right now the outcome of the game is being decided by warfare only and not by culture. Nukes are flying all over the place, robots walking around and we will never see a cultural victory. I disabled all other victory types but end-game tourism seems to do nothing and you are limited to how much tourism you can gerenate by the amount of cities and wonders that you have.
 
SilverDash said:
At the moment I have more tourism than all other civs together and it does exactly 0. So they must be having some insane culture. But I also changed to content now. Even the Babylonians that lost their capital (but retook it) and got nuked like 5 times and only have 2 tiny cities left can defend themselves against my hundreds of tourism... Tourism is worthless unless you perhaps have like 700 of it?

Right now the outcome of the game is being decided by warfare only and not by culture. Nukes are flying all over the place, robots walking around and we will never see a cultural victory. I disabled all other victory types but end-game tourism seems to do nothing and you are limited to how much tourism you can gerenate by the amount of cities and wonders that you have.
Click to expand...

The other thing to do when you are being bombarded by tourism and your culture is

GO TO WAR

It pretty much shuts down tourism. That may be why the bullets are flying. I found when I had too much influence on a civ, I can expect a DOW shortly afterward.
 
Yes I know but that is now what I meant... I wanted a peaceful cultural victory. My point is that on higher difficulties it's hard (if not near impossible) to do so. Sure u can kill all their cities except one and then nuke that last city all the time to keep it's population low and such and then take it using tourism... But that's silly. If 2 AI cities with like 6 pop can defend against tourism for ~100 turns from an entire empire (not even counting the other AI's pressure on this AI) with huge cities and wonders and such then... What's the point of tourism & cultural victory? Just load them nukes and bombers and win the old fashioned way then I guess.

But the other way around it does seem to work, the AI can bombard a players happiness with only 20-60 tourism and less culture. But the player with hundreds of tourism and all kinds of bonuses like open borders in return does nothing...
 
Can you post a save? It sounds to me like your problem is that they outproduced your in tourism and culture early on, which creates a very difficult obstacle to overcome.
 
I started over again on domination-only. But there I got slaughtered by the upkeep and after I killed my neighbor the rest of the world all declared war on me and I had no more trade routes and my army died because of their upkeep ugh... Also puppet cities killing my happiness... I think that civ5 is not so for me. I think I prefer the old civ 1-2 styles more where I can play aggressive and/or build super large empires. All this culture and income nonsense... I can't handle it and I don't like it :P.
 
SilverDash said:
Yes I know but that is now what I meant... I wanted a peaceful cultural victory. My point is that on higher difficulties it's hard (if not near impossible) to do so. Sure u can kill all their cities except one and then nuke that last city all the time to keep it's population low and such and then take it using tourism... But that's silly. If 2 AI cities with like 6 pop can defend against tourism for ~100 turns from an entire empire (not even counting the other AI's pressure on this AI) with huge cities and wonders and such then... What's the point of tourism & cultural victory? Just load them nukes and bombers and win the old fashioned way then I guess.

But the other way around it does seem to work, the AI can bombard a players happiness with only 20-60 tourism and less culture. But the player with hundreds of tourism and all kinds of bonuses like open borders in return does nothing...
Click to expand...

How are you planning to win this game you're playing?
 
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